Stalin and the Struggle for Democratic Reform

[Az]

Mob rule is underrated.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I believe this is something that Market Socialists found out a while back (if you are inclined towards socialism, that is).

<--------------market socialist

Sorry, I don't trust a cental planning agency to set the production and prices of every possible commodity, it takes too many evenings, to use a well know quote. Have super-important things like millitary equiptment, healthcare, oil/natural gas industries, and the natural monopolies centrally planned, certainly, but not everything. My system would have the following:

Centrally planned industries
State-owned corporations
co-ops
small private businesses (Ma & Pa stores and etc.)
freelance individuals.

Capital comes from a state-run bank. There can be both a state-run corporation as well as co-ops in the same industry, so for instance there can be a state-owned automobile manufacturer allong side co-op manufacturers.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[q=Che]Not a prime example of efficiency.[/q]

Depends on who you ask. The fact that there is a self-regulation indicates an efficient model to me of finding out customer feedback and quality control. Governments may wish to temper this, but it is self-regulating and efficient (at least IMO).

Bah... then the point of efficiency becomes moot. If you call unemployment, starvation and misery 'self-regulation', then there was as much of it in the USSR as in the capitalist countries during the Depression.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

[q=Az]Teh electioniz0r[/q]

Because most politicians are accountable to their populace?

Yep accountable only to the extent that they seek election or re-election. Face it the continuum of voting with dollars makes accountability much more timely and automatic rather then the discontinuity and at best minimal accountability having every x years representatives having to pay lip service to their constituency. (which by its nature is certainly not a homogeneous customer with homogeneous demand needs)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Bah... then the point of efficiency becomes moot. If you call unemployment, starvation and misery 'self-regulation', then there was as much of it in the USSR as in the capitalist countries during the Depression.

I seem to recall economic booms, leading to a rise in living standards, arising from capitalism as well .

And we never would have had a "Depression" if the idiots in the US Federal Reserve hadn't declared a tight monetary policy and there hadn't been tariff wars because countries thought they were needed to deal with the problem.

[Az]

Yep accountable only to the extent that they seek election or re-election. Face it the continuum of voting with dollars makes accountability much more timely and automatic rather then the discontinuity and at best minimal accountability having every x years representatives having to pay lip service to their constituency. (which by its nature is certainly not a homogeneous customer with homogeneous demand needs)

And here's where direct democracy comes in.

Only instead of "voting with dollars", which is, of course, completely undemocratic, you're voting with, you know, votes.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And here's where direct democracy comes in.

Only instead of "voting with dollars", which is, of course, completely undemocratic, you're voting with, you know, votes.

Oh, poor, naive Az.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Odin
My system would have the following:

Centrally planned industries
State-owned corporations
co-ops
small private businesses (Ma & Pa stores and etc.)
freelance individuals.

Capital comes from a state-run bank. There can be both a state-run corporation as well as co-ops in the same industry, so for instance there can be a state-owned automobile manufacturer allong side co-op manufacturers.

Ah, but the $64 question is what happens when the ma & pa store becomes too successful and is no longer just a small private business?

[lord of the mark]

I officially declare that this thread is no longer about Stalin, the USSR, or history, but is no just one more cap/com thread.

[Arrian]

Of course. There really isn't much cause for a serious debate on the original premise of the thread, so there was only one place to go.

-Arrian

[Mao]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I officially declare that this thread is no longer about Stalin, the USSR, or history, but is no just one more cap/com thread.

Street Fighter
Hot fighting girls
Chun Li

[Odin]

Originally posted by Kontiki


Ah, but the $64 question is what happens when the ma & pa store becomes too successful and is no longer just a small private business?

Set a size limit, get any larger than the limit and the business must become a co-op.

[Kontiki]

Now there's a recipe for innovation and hard work if I've ever seen it.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I officially declare that this thread is no longer about Stalin, the USSR, or history, but is no just one more cap/com thread.

I actually tried to remain on-topic but no one commented my post.

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

And here's where direct democracy comes in.

Only instead of "voting with dollars", which is, of course, completely undemocratic, you're voting with, you know, votes.

Oh, poor, naive Az.

whatever dude. If this is your best comeback, might as well save up on electronic ink.

Direct democracy has a very nice tendency to work. It worked in Israel. still does in some places. Large scale attempts have NEVER been made.