Court Rules Cancer Patient it to be Denied Herceptin

[Krill]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Yes.

That amount of money you quoted sounds like chump change anyway. Get to $400B/yr deficits like the US and we can talk.

So who pays for all that medicine? All those lovely, expensive drugs that everyone has the right to? And who pays the wages? Nobody has that right to it, IMO.


[q=KH]You're really disputing the fact that the NHS spends ~730 pounds a year for each citizen of the UK? That seems like an eminently reasonable number.[/q]

Never said I disagreed with it, I just want to know where he got the number from.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Spiffor
1 billion £ is a paltry amount of money for a country as big as the UK. You could easily gather that money with a small extra tax on stock exchange transactions.

There already is a small extra tax on stock exchange transactions, and its already more than the French have to pay!

[Sandman]

I remember hearing about it somewhere. Can't remember where. Wikipedia says the NHS has budget this financial year of £80 billion - about £220 million per day.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Dauphin
There already is a small extra tax on stock exchange transactions, and its already more than the French have to pay!

Don't blame me, I'm doing my best so that it changes. Too bad I don't have the same talent for demagogery as our rightwing figureheads

[Dauphin]

According to the Department of Health, the spending on the NHS in 2000 was ~£42bn (of which £1bn capital spending). In 2008 its expected to be £92.6bn (of which £6bn capital spending)

http://www.dh.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/11/37/90/04113790.pdf

[Az]

the spending on the NHS in 2000 was ~£42bn

Seems like chump change.

In 2008 its expected to be £92.6bn (of which £6bn capital spending)

You mother****ers better discover a cure for cancer with that kind of spending.

How does that translate to % of GDP for the respective years?

[C0ckney]

it translates into a massive waste of money.

[Az]

Maybe - better look into it.

However, what is the solution?

[Japher]

I use to make Herceptin... I'm proud to say that because it means I have helped to save boobs

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by C0ckney
it translates into a massive waste of money.

So what, is it really no better than the system in the US where you pray youre not sick because your insurance wont cover it? Where the poor keep from visiting doctors because they cant afford clinic visits until their problem gets so bad it needs huge work done on it? Maybe you would change your mind if Britain had people being pulled off life support because their family couldn't afford to pay the hospital bills.

You Europeans have such a good thing going, and I hope you all know it.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Az
Maybe - better look into it.

However, what is the solution?

well the problem is that while the government has trebled(!) the NHS's budget since 1997, it has shied away from any real reform because of pressure from the unions and its own left-wing MPs. despite this vast increase in spending there are still 'shortages' within the service, for some expensive treatments, but also for things like dental care. my dentist decided to stop doing NHS work last year, no dentists are taking on new (NHS) patients anywhere in my area, so i don't have a dentist, it's the same right across the country. 1000s of people die each year from MRSA, because of an inability to maintain basic standards of cleanliness in hospitals.

we need to start asking some questions, like where the hell has all that extra money gone? according to the office of national statistics, much of it has gone on staff wage increases, hiring of extra (mostly non-medical) staff, negligence claims or just simply wasted through incompetence or mismanagement. far too little seems to have found its way through to patient care. productivity has also fallen, by between 1-8% depending on who you believe since 1995. we have an obsession with targets for things like waiting lists, which look great for labour press releases, but not so great for actual patients. the NAO (national audit office) found nine trusts had ‘inappropriately adjusted’ (read fiddled) waiting lists in 2001 and in 2003 the audit commission found evidence of ‘deliberate misreporting’. trusts, under pressure to meet targets have also been found doing things like treating patients with simple ailments first to boost figures, while shunting more serious and complex cases to the back of the queue.

the solution? well if i had the solution then i probably wouldn't be sitting here you guys all about it but it surely has to be to get some real reform done, to demand some efficiency and value from the NHS instead of just throwing good money after bad.

[Az]

the BS meter usually goes of the scales when the unions are blamed.

What are wages for trained personnel in the uk? compare them to the states and europe for fairness.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Spiffor
1 billion £ is a paltry amount of money for a country as big as the UK. You could easily gather that money with a small extra tax on stock exchange transactions.

This is exactly the problem, because of the nature of National Insurance contributions, the rich don't actually pay that much more tax on the upper income tax band than is actually paid by those on the lower part...there is a zone in the middle where you effectively pay less on that amount than lower earners...I have the dubious privelege of falling in there somewhere. I think it is about time NI was scrapped and we had a far more progressive income tax system...

[Provost Harrison]

Az's rebuttal to c0ckney is correct, the NHS pays absolute peanuts unless you are a doctor...the problem is, there is a large layer of bureaucrats and contract companies profiteering off the organisation...

[CerberusIV]

What the story really boils down to is that the NHS tries to decide who to treat - not unreasonable on limited resources in a country with an ageing population expecting ever more advanced and expensive treatments. However, if you get turned down just go to court. The PCTs would rather spend £20,000 a year each on a few cancer patients who may or may not benefit than be dragged through the High Court and Appeal Court at much greater cost and adverse publicity.