Canadian Philosophy Professor Raises Tensions

[Whaleboy]

You're basically a simple minded **** with little or no understanding of this, or any situation that doesn't involve your pastors **** up your arse.

[Jon Miller]

I thought startlightdeath was an atheist?

And yes, there does seem to be a double standard here with abortion.

JM

[DinoDoc]

I'm suprised to see Europeans so passionately defend the right of free speech when it comes to this issue when they so zealously restrict it in other areas.

[Whaleboy]

Is that with reference to the Abortion issue? I can't speak for others, but I didn't disagree with that. I would have been one of the people disagreeing with the motives for displaying images of aborted foetuses, but would not object to them actually doing so.

[Dinner]

The professor was standing up for free speech and provoking discussion. It was not the way I would have choosen to do it, writing an article about the satire cartoons and the importance of protecting free speech might have been better, but never the less it is a useful discussion to have.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Is that with reference to the Abortion issue?

It isn't a reference to the abortion issue at all.

[Whaleboy]

Same goes for Holocaust deniers. Are we really so insecure about our own opinions that we'd seek to silence the maladjusted idiots who think their own bigoted beliefs are stronger than the weight of history? Let them speak, and be shouted down imo.

[Cyclotron]

I can readily accept the Holocaust "exception" because of its unique relevance to Europe. Must everything be neccessarily consistent?

[Whaleboy]

I can understand why you would think there would be an exception, after all, common sense says that if there is to be any exception, the holocaust would surely be it.

However, that starts begging the question of what constitutes exceptions and of course that'll spark cries of "me too" from all quarters and it'll all be very messy.

[StarLightDeath]

You're basically a simple minded **** with little or no understanding of this, or any situation that doesn't involve your pastors **** up your arse.

For somebody who is obviously intellectually superior to myself, you sure do come up with "simple minded" attacks. Jon miller is right, I'm an atheist. I look forward to your next mindless attempt to put me in my spot.

[Whaleboy]

For somebody who is obviously intellectually superior to myself, you sure do come up with "simple minded" attacks. Jon miller is right, I'm an atheist. I look forward to your next mindless attempt to put me in my spot.

Well I called you a Christian and for that I am truly sorry . Keep the red flag flying my godless friend!.

You've got a very simplistic "black and white" "West vs. Islam" view of the situation whereas I think many of us take integration of Muslims into Western society as given. You seem determined to separate the two, whereas the rest of us want to make it work, which as history shows, requires give and take on both sides. Step one, imo, is to get Muslims to understand the way the West works re. freedom of speech and criticism of religion.

You seem more interested in rivers of blood.

[StarLightDeath]

Well I called you a Christian and for that I am truly sorry . Keep the red flag flying my godless friend!.

You've got a very simplistic "black and white" "West vs. Islam" view of the situation whereas I think many of us take integration of Muslims into Western society as given. You seem determined to separate the two, whereas the rest of us want to make it work, which as history shows, requires give and take on both sides. Step one, imo, is to get Muslims to understand the way the West works re. freedom of speech and criticism of religion.

You seem more interested in rivers of blood.

I think your knee jerk reaction to lash out and brand me as a christian is very telling of your hypocritical stance on Islam and "acceptance." You are so busy attacking Christianity which is largely benign, and is thus an easy target for the atheists who feel the world should be godless, that you fail to see the real enemy out there. By destroying Christianity you play into the hands of Islam and thus make the situation worse. You are in fact working against your own cause. While I fully believe that the world never be without religion, I also believe it is in the nature of society for religion to continually be whittled away by science as can be seen in the case of Christianity. Instead of attacking it, you should embrace it and allow nature to take its course. If you continue your feel good bull**** attitude of "lets integrate the muslims" you will find that integration is simply not possible. They don't share anything with our culture and they will never pledge allegiance to their host country. They are loyal to Islam and Islam only. In order for things to get better they have to get worse first. Eventually there will have to be an all out war and the civilized countries are going to have to unite.

[Whaleboy]

I think your knee jerk reaction to lash out and brand me as a christian is very telling of your hypocritical stance on Islam and "acceptance."

No, I mistakenly thought you were a Christian and decided to take the piss, I fail to see how that has a bearing on my argument.

If you continue your feel good bull**** attitude of "lets integrate the muslims" you will find that integration is simply not possible. They don't share anything with our culture and they will never pledge allegiance to their host country.

Integration is a process that takes time. In UK history, consider the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Normans, the Jews, the Hugenots, the Dutch, and in latter history, Afro-Caribbeans. The latter case is interesting because the position 25 years ago was analogous to today in the UK, in terms of a general feeling of resentment on both sides. The situation is rather different today.

In so far as the cultures are different, well perhaps you could look at it like that, but I prefer to see religions as being on a sliding scale of conservatism. You have liberal Jews on the one end (pretty much the most liberal group imo in terms of attitudes and intellectual freedom, it's the group I hail from), Christians throughout, some conservative, some liberal, and a big lump of the Muslim population at the conservative end. That might include self-segregation, attitudes toward women etc.

We know that Islam is capable of extraordinary liberty, I mean just look at its history. What's changed since the days when Islam was a beacon in the Dark ages? IMO, interpretation of the Koran in the light of current circumstances; i.e., the sort of thing that can change in a generation.

You have this peculiar desire to see an all our war to put Islam in its place, frankly I find it strange. Your arguments might well resonate more in the Middle East, I suppose it all depends what happens with Israel and Hamas; I would be surprised if it erupts into all out war considering that the Palestinians aren't exactly liked by other Arabs.

A clash of civilisations is doubly unrealistic because of the immense tactical advantage of the West. Sure a few suicide bombers could blow themselves up or fly planes into buildings, but compared to a single night of the Blitz in London, it's next to nothing. That's why they call it terrorism... there's little tactical impact, the whole idea is to spark fear into people's minds which will cause politicians to take a harder line; thus making it easier to recruit more terrorists.

It's people like you that play right into the hands of fundamentalist Islam.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
I can readily accept the Holocaust "exception" because of its unique relevance to Europe.

Isn't it a bit dangerous to start declaring "exceptions" to the right of free speech? Especially with the zealous defense of the cartoons coming from Europe, isn't it time to review those laws in this new light? After all to quote C0ckney some things are worth fighting for.

[Fake Boris]

DD is actually arguing