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Canadian Philosophy Professor Raises Tensions

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Agathon
    Don't be stupid.

    What matters in this case is the place he posted it: on his office door, in a college where people are supposed to talk about such topics.
    So then you believe pro-Life supporters should be able to plaster pictures of aborted fetuses across campus?
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

    Comment

    • #32
      Answer me this:

      Do you think that a professor with public opinions calling religions "odious" (which means "abominable: unequivocally detestable") posting a cartoon known to spark riots and protests around the world (and involving deaths) onto his door where he knows that hundreds of muslims would be offended by it is an ethical action on his part?


      Yes. Because there is no better place to discuss this than in a university, and it is obviously something worth discussing.

      Anyone who says "yes" very clearly should have nothing to do with dictating ethics for the rest of us.


      Jesus....

      Since when do philosophers "dictate" ethics. We teach ethics classes, which are either classes about theories of ethics (metaethics), or classes that teach you how to make ethical arguments about controversial ethical topics (normative ethics). We also publish papers in journals that non-philosophers don't read, and some of us write opinion pieces for the mass media.

      Through all these channels the result is that some of our ideas catch on and others do not. It's not that much different from how knowledge of complicated scientific discoveries is disseminated amongst society. No one accuses university scientists of "dictating" the beliefs of the populace, and I imagine they would double over with laughter at the suggestion.
      Only feebs vote.

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by Agathon
        Yes. Because there is no better place to discuss this than in a university, and it is obviously something worth discussing.
        Do you not comprehend the social climate at the time he tried to hold the "discussion"?

        Holding an academic discussion would be what you said the UofT did, which is also why there is no uproar over it. What this professor did was troll, which is completely different and absolutely not ethical.

        Since when do philosophers "dictate" ethics. We teach ethics classes, which are either classes about theories of ethics (metaethics), or classes that teach you how to make ethical arguments about controversial ethical topics (normative ethics). We also publish papers in journals that non-philosophers don't read, and some of us write opinion pieces for the mass media.
        What do ethics committees do then for health care organizations, etc?

        A year ago you were telling me Philosophers are oh-so-important because they sit on such committees that determine what is ethical and unethical for the organizations to do. And now you're telling me that isn't the case.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment

        • #34
          Originally posted by Asher

          No, "taking up a subject" means you hold a forum or class discussion on it.

          Posting the cartoons in a public place where you know people will be offended by it is trolling.
          Of course it isn't trolling - it's a mean to start a debate, and that is quite acceptable done by provcation. It's rare in CompSci and other HW science, but it's quite common in his area.
          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

          Steven Weinberg

          Comment

          • #35
            Originally posted by BlackCat
            Of course it isn't trolling - it's a mean to start a debate, and that is quite acceptable done by provcation.
            err...what do you think trolling is?
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by Asher


              err...what do you think trolling is?
              The way you usually acts - starting a war instead of a debate.
              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

              Steven Weinberg

              Comment

              • #37
                Originally posted by BlackCat
                The way you usually acts - starting a war instead of a debate.
                And what debate was started? I can point to a "war" that was started, but I'm not sure anyone actually discussed the cartoons. People were certainly at "war" with the prof though, hence the hundreds of people protesting and the University ordering the cartoons removed for reasons of public safety.

                Troll is absolutely accurate, by your own definition.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by Asher

                  And what debate was started? I can point to a "war" that was started, but I'm not sure anyone actually discussed the cartoons. People were certainly at "war" with the prof though, hence the hundreds of people protesting and the University ordering the cartoons removed for reasons of public safety.

                  Troll is absolutely accurate, by your own definition.
                  Can't remember that I have said that call for debate couldn't result in war.

                  These drawings has revealed that there are a problem between freedom of speach and religious taboos and it is certainly the job of a professor of Philosophy to take up this problem. He can write a book about it wich noone outside a small circle would ever read or she could spark up a now and here discussion. One thing that is for certain is that it can't be ignored.

                  You seem to be a carpet person that prefers to push difficult problems under such, but that actually don't make them dissapear - they just lay under that carpet and grows bigger.
                  With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                  Steven Weinberg

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Well, I'm more or less on your side of this particular issue, Asher. However, it became apparent to me a while back that some people on our side of civilization aren't in much more of a mood to listen than the nutty arsonists. They're apparently eager for some kind of "High Noon"-style showdown between cultures, and mentioning the massive and pointless body count such an event would cause for both sides, and the low likelihood of success, is merely cowardice.

                    So I stopped trying. Hopefully the "freedom hawks" are the minority in their countries of origin, but if they aren't, well, as "it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good," I'm just trying to look forward to the economic boost the US could get selling weapons to crazy-ass Euro-cowboys who want trouble. Eventually they'll realize just how much more POed the Muslim world can get, and how many more of them there are that weren't fighting before, but in the meantime, hey, it draws terrorists away from our troops in Iraq...well, you're Canadian, so that doesn't work.

                    Not that it isn't horribly depressing all the same. Hopefully they'll learn quickly why we don't throw rocks at hornets' nests.
                    1011 1100
                    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      @Elok : could you please elaborate about how this case should be handled.
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BlackCat
                        @Elok : could you please elaborate about how this case should be handled.
                        From Agathon's post:
                        U of T has several open lectures and debates on this topic in the coming week. I saw advertisements for them the other day.
                        Academic discourse is different than offensive postings on the door without context. This is why the UofT's open lectures and debates have not drawn ire, but this man has.

                        It's really depressing that you cannot see the difference.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Asher

                          From Agathon's post:


                          Academic discourse is different than offensive postings on the door without context. This is why the UofT's open lectures and debates have not drawn ire, but this man has.

                          It's really depressing that you cannot see the difference.
                          Please tell me what will happen if it becomes common knowledge that UofT has such lectures - especially if some radical islamist organisation find out. Do you think that it will become a peacefull academic discourse then ?
                          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                          Steven Weinberg

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Certainly has a far higher chance of what the professor in this article did.

                            I'll have you remember that it's not just the radical islamists upset in the OP, it's the Muslim student body as a whole -- not a bunch of radicals.

                            Your situation is quite different.
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Academic discourse is different than offensive postings on the door without context. This is why the UofT's open lectures and debates have not drawn ire, but this man has.


                              The context is that they were on his office door... in a college.

                              You are the stupidest troll on this forum.
                              Only feebs vote.

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Asher
                                Certainly has a far higher chance of what the professor in this article did.

                                I'll have you remember that it's not just the radical islamists upset in the OP, it's the Muslim student body as a whole -- not a bunch of radicals.

                                Your situation is quite different.
                                You are quite naive - who do you think that are most active in such activities - the radicals or the moderate ?
                                With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                                Steven Weinberg

                                Comment

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