How Much Calculus in High School?

[Az]

When I was in 5th grade I think I wanted to be... hell, I've no idea what I wanted to be. I probably figured I'd become a "businessman" like my dad (translation: high-level executive... hah!). That's about as far as my thinking went back then.

well, did dad hook you up?

[Odin]

Only 5th Grade? Good God. I didn't have to start thinking about electives (besides Choir) untill 9th Grade (then again, I went to a small rural school, so not enough students for lots of electives).

If your kid is going into the sciences I would go for The magnet sequence, or the acelerated seqence if the magnet school is not possible. By what I've heard from relatives in Minneapolis, sending the kid to the magnet school will be well worth the hassel.

[Az]

OTOH, he could come out like Kuci.

[loinburger]

Now that I think back on it, I had to start making decisions about my math coursework in 6th grade -- in Illinois you could take the math SAT's early, and if you scored well enough (500? 600? I forget) then you could enter an accelerated program. That's how I was able to take courses at the community college while I was in high school -- I'd finished the high school's math program a year or two early.

[Jon Miller]

I first wanted to be an astronaught/astrophysicist

then a scientist (in grad school)

then an engineer/mathematician/physicist in highschool

then a physicist/mathematician in college

then a
particle theorist (0-1.5 years)
condensed matter/many bodied theorist (2-3 years)
nuclear experimentalist (3+ yaers)
in graduate school

and I am a lot less certain on being a scientist after grad school then I use to be

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by loinburger
Now that I think back on it, I had to start making decisions about my math coursework in 6th grade -- in Illinois you could take the math SAT's early, and if you scored well enough (500? 600? I forget) then you could enter an accelerated program. That's how I was able to take courses at the community college while I was in high school -- I'd finished the high school's math program a year or two early.

I finished mine a couple years early, and took the SATs early (and did well)

but my school didn't really have that option for math, they said they did (They said they had AP calc), but when I took it it was a joke (it would have been far better to ahve taken it at comm college)

so I went to college a bit behind most with regards to math.. (I did start with calc 2, but my calc 1 was weak (which affected me for a couple of years) and I did have less calc classes then most)

Jon Miller
(most of the good physicist students had calc 2 or better coming in to college)

[loinburger]

My high school calc program was a joke in the opposite direction -- the class started out with twenty people, and sixteen of them dropped after failing too many tests. I wound up with a 5 on the Calc BC test and a C in the class.

[Urban Ranger]

One evening I was talking to my friend Bob, who was a Math major. Part of the conversion went like this:

Me: "So you like math?"
Bob: "You bet I do."
Me: "Even Calculus?"
Bob: "Hm, except Calculus."

Calculus is conceptually easy but the advanced operations are extremely hard. I also don't think it helps all that much for trying to getting into MIT or CalTech. Better off having her building robots in her spare time

[civman2000]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
One evening I was talking to my friend Bob, who was a Math major. Part of the conversion went like this:

Me: "So you like math?"
Bob: "You bet I do."
Me: "Even Calculus?"
Bob: "Hm, except Calculus."

Calculus is conceptually easy but the advanced operations are extremely hard. I also don't think it helps all that much for trying to getting into MIT or CalTech. Better off having her building robots in her spare time

Very true. For people interested in pure math, calculus is the epitome of silly, lower-level computational nonsense that prevents you from learning real interesting math.

I've known I wanted to be a mathematician since I was 5 .

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by Jonny
What I did, starting in 7th grade: Pre-algebra, algebra I, geometry, algebra II, trigonometry/pre-calc (where I am now), AP calculus BC.

That is what your kid would be doing in Arkansas as well. (That is the "advanced" track in AR, at least)

On second thought I would encourage you to challenge your daughter to take all the hardest math she can (and pass) because those math skills will show up on the ACT. In the 7th grade I got something like a 20 (of 36) on Math but after taking (dont remember if I ever took pre-algebra) algebra I and geometry that went up to 29. Haven't taken it again yet.

Even if mathematics isn't her bag she needs to be at least good enough that it won't ruin her test scores.

BUT since she's just going into sixth grade, you don't need to worry about this for a long, long time.

[Dinner]

It will help a lot in college and it will put her on equal footing with students from most other countries so you need to get her into as many accelerated programs as possible. The standard American system is just a disgrace.

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Not really. I wanted to be an astrophysicist when I was that age.

I wanted to be a mathematician when I was that age
Then later a quantum physicist in HS but I still ended a mathematician

[KrazyHorse]

Adam, I don't know what to say. My experience was not the standard US high school one, but my immediate reaction is to place her in the advanced track (the one which does not involve driving hours every day). Which of those advanced topics she takes should be fully up to her, so as not to bore her too early, but I would suggest the DE or multivariate calc ones. Linear is sort of boring when taught at the level of a high school course, and might turn her off. If she's interested in computers, however, linear is probably the most immediately useful subject.

To compare, here is my experience (note I was a year young for all these grades):

Grades 1-6 learned elementary arithmetic in school
Grade 6 took private lessons with a math tutor (PhD in mathematics). Learnt everything I ever needed to know about algebra and trigonometry in 12-15 hours of intensive sessions. Stalled out when we came to the concept of a limit. I think my mind wasn't developed or logical enough to understand it at this point.
Grade 7, 8, 9 "learned" algebra again in school. Was bored out of my mind in math class. Competed every year in math competitions, which were really fun and also taught me a number of tricks I continue to use. Independently developed basic probability theory in these years.
Grade 10 learned trig again
Grade 11 learned a bunch of classical geometry. Very interesting. Taught me a lot about the formulation of a strict axiomatic system. Reformulated what I had learned about limits previously. Almost managed to independently reinvent differential calculus based on this. Not quite.

Grade 7-11 was at a Jesuit high school. The quality of the teaching was very high, the teachers were quite intelligent, and they were interested in developing promising students beyond the outlines of the course curriculum.

Grade 11 is where high school ends in QC. Over the next two years at "CEGYP", the intermediate stage that all QC students go to I completed a pre-university degree in "Pure and Applied Sciences". In these two years I took "precalculus" (i.e. sequences and series, and basic complex algebra) differential calculus, integral calculus, multivariate calculus and linear algebra.

When I was finished CEGYP I was 18 years old, had a 3 year Bachelor's degree ahead of me and knew what your daughter will know after completing high school with a 4 year Bachelor's degree ahead of her. It should be plenty. Either she will become very comfortable with calculus on first sight or she won't be. Some people never make it over that hump, no matter how well or how many times they are taught. I wouldn't worry too much about it this far in advance.

[Seeker]

"Almost managed to independently reinvent differential calculus based on this. Not quite."

What exactly do you mean by this? Do you have anything that you could post?

[KrazyHorse]

No, this was ages ago.

If I'd known I was on the right track (just by knowing what calculus truly was) I think I would have managed it, but as it was I ended up with a bunch of doodling and the wrong form of the expression of the slope of a secant line. I can't remember quite what was wrong, but it didn't simplify as easily as it should have. I left it at that, thinking it was nothing.