How Much Calculus in High School?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I hated Calculus in college, but maybe that was because it was an 8 AM class. I did pretty well in my math SATs as well, but I found out in high school that without the right teacher, I wasn't going to learn math. Algebra 2/Trigonometry comes to mind. The first 2 months, I had this aging nice teacher, who didn't teach me anything worth a damn, and I was heading for a REAL bad grade. Then that guy retired and the new teacher really explained it better and I was great the rest of the year ('A' level). So, I guess that is a consideration.

[Pekka]

wtf! I thought she was going IN HS now. 10 years old?

Jeesh...

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I took calc I and II in high school, and im glad, because math classes in college are horrible (at least mine) You really dont learn.

[Ramo]

Our oldest daughter is entering middle school next year. She enjoys math and is pretty good at it. We have three options for math courses:
1. Standard sequence:
math, pre algebra, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, analysis, ending with AP calculus in 12 grade.
2. Accelerated seqeunce:
Start with pre-algebra, so everything is a year sooner. The last year is then multivariate calculus, linear algebra, or differential equations
3. Magnet Sequence:
Same as accleerated, but taught at the math / science magnet high school.

Option 3 involves a loooong commute, and therefore seems unlikely. Leaving aside the question of why on earth we have to make such a decision in fifth grade does anybody have any perspective on taking an extra year of calculus in high school? Did it help with other high school work, college admissions, or college work? Or would you rather have spent the time and effort taking more courses or more difficult (AP) courses in other subjects?

I did choice three. Frankly, the extra year of multivariable calc/linear algebra wasn't all that well taught, so I can't say that they helped me very much (I'm going to graduate in physics and math in a couple months). The curricula for these classes are less standardized than high school calculus (or differential equations, which is somewhat integrated into the AP test), so the quality of teaching may be a problem. And since these aren't AP classes, she'll probably have to take them again in college if she's still interested in math or related fields. As for entrance into college, I don't think that taking these classes or some more AP classes in other subjects would make a difference (but the latter might save her some money). So, it's kind of a wash.

I'd say that she should do the Magnet sequence (the advantage she has with the Magnet sequence over the accelerated sequence is better quality of teaching), but it really isn't that big a deal either way. If your daughter decides that she wants to take more advanced math classes, she can probably double up on math for one year (which is what I did after switching to a Magnet school).

[Kontiki]

I took the standard math courses in high school, didn't take any AP courses at all and took one more class than the bare minimum. I had absolutely no trouble getting into any university of my choice. It probably hurt me in terms of the handful of science classes I took in university, but I was going for a BA so it didn't really matter. It made no difference in my getting a job after I graduated nor in my getting accepted into a world-class MBA program. In my MBA, more calculus (which I could have just taken in undergrad but didn't) would have been a benefit in some of the more advanced corporate finance classes (derivatives, fixed income trading strategies, etc), but I still took some of them without too much difficulty. It again had no impact on me getting another job post-grad school.

So, unless your child is planning on going into the sciences/engineering or things have changed radically since I went through school (which is a very real possibility), I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Seeker]

"child is planning on going into the sciences/engineering"

anyone else think there is something wonky with this applied to a 5th grader?

My 'plans' at the time were rather more vague lets say...

Making decisions that could potentially affect your whole career path and 'life options' in 5th grade is nuts.

I'd go with option 1, keep your options open. The passions of youth flare and die and all that.

[Adam Smith]

Originally posted by Seeker
Making decisions that could potentially affect your whole career path and 'life options' in 5th grade is nuts.

Hence my
But thanks for the observations anyway. Keep 'em coming.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Seeker
"child is planning on going into the sciences/engineering"

anyone else think there is something wonky with this applied to a 5th grader?

Not really. I wanted to be an astrophysicist when I was that age.

[Kontiki]

I think I wanted to be an architect when I was 10.

[Bill3000]

Calculus is absolutely awesome, and I cannot possibly think what my life would have been like if I did not have learned it. It makes all previous math seem completely insignificant.

[Kidlicious]

Re: How Much Calculus in High School?

Originally posted by Adam Smith
3. Magnet Sequence:
Same as accleerated, but taught at the math / science magnet high school.

Option 3 involves a loooong commute, and therefore seems unlikely.

I was a regular high school math teacher and a substitute teacher. I highly suggest the magnet school. Magnet schools are much better. How long is the commute? Can she take the city bus?

[mrmitchell]

Our oldest daughter is entering middle school next year. She enjoys math and is pretty good at it. We have three options for math courses:
1. Standard sequence:
math, pre algebra, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, analysis, ending with AP calculus in 12 grade.
2. Accelerated seqeunce:
Start with pre-algebra, so everything is a year sooner. The last year is then multivariate calculus, linear algebra, or differential equations
3. Magnet Sequence:
Same as accleerated, but taught at the math / science magnet high school.

Option 3 involves a loooong commute, and therefore seems unlikely. Leaving aside the question of why on earth we have to make such a decision in fifth grade does anybody have any perspective on taking an extra year of calculus in high school? Did it help with other high school work, college admissions, or college work? Or would you rather have spent the time and effort taking more courses or more difficult (AP) courses in other subjects?

Go with the "accelerated sequence"

She'll get a good start in it, if she likes it, then she can keep it up, and if she doesnt like it then as JM said she may decide to switch to something else in her senior year. (You might want to make sure on that first. Each state and each school have usually wildly different requirements.)

Deciding this before the sixth grade

But that probably isn't as bad as it looks to other posters. If this is like the typical American high school she isn't locked into this track forever. At pretty much any time she and you want, she can change her classes. (You may want to make sure about this.)

I have zero experience with magnet schools so I couldn't suggest you anything about them.

[Arrian]

When I was in 5th grade I think I wanted to be... hell, I've no idea what I wanted to be. I probably figured I'd become a "businessman" like my dad (translation: high-level executive... hah!). That's about as far as my thinking went back then.

I'd say pick option 2, AS, but what do I know? I've got a History degree and I work as a glorified claims guy at an insurance company (it's actually a solid gig, mind you).

Your basic reaction is, I feel, appropriate. She's like 10, man.

-Arrian

[Az]

I dreamt of being a scientist, most probably a biochemist probably since the 7th or the 8th grade. I've considered being an astrophysicist before that.

So, no, it's not too early.

[Jonny]

I like #2, although I'm on a course similar to the first choice. (But that's not really a problem, since my school doesn't offer a multivariable calculus/linear alg. course). Of course, keep your options open at this early time, but since she appears to enjoy math (at least at this point) it's probably a solid sequence.

What I did, starting in 7th grade: Pre-algebra, algebra I, geometry, algebra II, trigonometry/pre-calc (where I am now), AP calculus BC.