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Torvalds defends DRM; dismisses GPL v3 -- Linux zealots weep

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  • Torvalds defends DRM; dismisses GPL v3 -- Linux zealots weep

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    Torvalds says DRM isn't necessarily bad
    By Stephen Shankland
    Staff Writer, CNET News.com
    Published: February 3, 2006, 12:14 PM PST

    Provisions against digital rights management in a draft update to the General Public License could undermine computer security, Linus Torvalds said this week in e-mails reflecting the Linux leader's pragmatic philosophy.

    "I think a lot of people may find that the GPLv3 'anti-DRM' measures aren't all that wonderful after all," Torvalds said in a posting Wednesday to the Linux kernel mailing list. "Digital signatures and cryptography aren't just 'bad DRM.' They very much are 'good security' too."

    The Free Software Foundation is in the process of revising the GPL, a seminal document that not only governs thousands of open-source projects but also functions as the constitution of the free software movement. One of the major new provisions in the proposed GPL version 3 is designed to prevent use of GPL software in conjunction with digital rights management. DRM technology does everything from encrypting movies and music to permitting only a digitally signed software to run on a specific computing device.

    Torvalds gave some examples of areas where he believes it's appropriate for secret digital keys to be used to sign software, or for a computer to run only software versions that have this digital signature to assure they're authorized.

    A company might want to distribute a Linux version that loads only kernel modules that have been signed, for example. Or they may want one that marks the kernel as "tainted" if it loads unsigned modules, Torvalds said.

    He added: "The current GPLv3 draft pretty clearly says that Red Hat would have to distribute their private keys, so that anybody can sign their own versions of the modules they recompile, in order to re-create their own versions of the signed binaries that Red Hat creates. That's insane."

    In January, Torvalds said he plans to keep the Linux kernel under the current version 2 of the GPL. That was seen as something of a rebuff to the Free Software Foundation and its president, Richard Stallman.

    The foundation added the anti-DRM provision in part so companies such as TiVo wouldn't be able to continue their current practice of using only authorized versions of Linux. The move restricts software freedoms that the foundation considers essential.

    But Torvalds said he believes it's not the software programmer's place to tell hardware designers what to do; if a hardware company's proprietary practices are objectionable, programmers should simply buy another company's hardware, Torvalds said.

    "I literally feel that we do not--as software developers--have the moral right to enforce our rules on hardware manufacturers. We are not crusaders, trying to force people to bow to our superior God. We are trying to show others that co-operation and openness works better," Torvalds said in one e-mail.

    In a later e-mail, Torvalds elaborated on his pragmatic attitude and opined that it's part of the reason for Linux's achievements.

    "A lot of people see the GPL as a 'crusading' license, and I think that's partly because the FSF really has been acting like a crusader," Torvalds wrote. "But I think that one of the main reasons Linux has been successful is that I don't think that the Linux community really is into crusading (some small parts of it are, but it's not the main reason). I think Linux has made the GPL more 'socially acceptable,' by being a hell of a lot less religious about it than the FSF was."

    The GPL 3 draft goes beyond Torvalds' prime licensing goal of reciprocity, he said.

    "GPLv2 is fair. It asks others to give back exactly what I myself offer: the source code to play with," Torvalds said. "The GPLv3 fundamentally changes that balance, in my opinion. It asks for more than it gives. It no longer asks for just source back, it asks for control over whatever system you used the source in."

    When it comes using DRM to encrypt digital content such as movies, Torvalds suggested in another e-mail that people take a different approach: employ a license from a group such as the Creative Commons that requires content to remain open.

    "If enough interesting content is licensed that way, DRM eventually becomes marginalized. Yes, it takes decades, but that's really no different at all from how the GPL works," Torvalds said.

    And he said the power of entrenched media companies doesn't just come through encryption.

    "As long as you expect Disney to feed your brain and just sit there on your couch, Disney and company will always be able to control the content you see," Torvalds said. "DRM is the smallest part of it. The crap we see and hear every day (regardless of any protection) is a much bigger issue."
    Interesting. Linux will be without GPL v3. GPL has always been a heavy-handed ideological license, but is it taking it too far?
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    Re: Torvalds defends DRM; dismisses GPL v3 -- Linux zealots weep

    Originally posted by Asher
    Interesting. Linux will be without GPL v3. GPL has always been a heavy-handed ideological license, but is it taking it too far?
    If you care to read what Torvalds wrote:

    I'm not arguing against the GPLv3.

    I'm arguing that the GPLv3 is wrong for _me_, and it's not the license I ever chose.
    [Emphasis added]

    So the answer is no.
    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm confused. The answer is no to GPLv3 going too far because the GPLv3 goes too far for Torvalds?
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • #4
        Asher, backed by a naturalized epistemology that tells him what is reality, certainly knows that there is nothing ideological about conventional licenses.
        In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Oncle Boris
          Asher, backed by a naturalized epistemology that tells him what is reality, certainly knows that there is nothing ideological about conventional licenses.
          Only feebs vote.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Oncle Boris
            Asher, backed by a naturalized epistemology that tells him what is reality, certainly knows that there is nothing ideological about conventional licenses.
            There's a difference between a license forcing you to open source your whole product if you use it even in just one part, and a license like BSD which says you can do whatever you want, as long as you don't take credit for their work.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • #7
              You do realize, like the American Left, Open Source Advocates have a varying range of beliefs and ideals?

              On one end, you have the nutters who think free must be open must be free must be viral, while in other locations, they don't think that so much.
              B♭3

              Comment


              • #8
                I wasn't aware that Disney controls what I see ...
                Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

                Comment


                • #9
                  Torvalds hasn't ruled out GPL 3 for Linux

                  If this section is removed, then Torvalds believes that, while practically speaking it may be difficult to bring Linux under GPL 3 due to the sheer number of copyright owners, the kernel might yet be moved to the new GPL.

                  In short, the debate over Linux and GPL 3 is far from over.
                  (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                  (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                  (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If the GPL3 removes the DRM thing, it becomes far less controversial. I don't think it'll happen, Stallman won't allow it to be removed...
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      UR, in other words, if GPL3 becomes more like GPL2, Torvalds would support it?

                      Your argument has the same value as me saying "the keyboard I am typing on is a keyboard".
                      "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
                      "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        From my understanding the only real difference between GPL2 and GPL3 is Stallman trying to force-feed his ideologies even more agressively by getting rid of DRM. If you remove that clause, GPL3 may as well become GPL 2.01.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment

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