DNA profiles

[Winston]

The place of DNA evidence in police investigative work and in trial court proceedings is becoming more and more prominent, especially for the more severe cases involving various degrees of bodily harm to others.

At present, here in Denmark, a person charged with an offense punishable by imprisonment for 18 months or more will automatically have his DNA sampled, and added to the growing database of profiles used for comparison with evidence in unsolved cases, both existing and future ones.

Scores of old cases are being solved on this basis each month, and as the database grows, the ratio of "new" cases solved in various categories keeps going up.

Why not extend this highly succesful practice (in terms of solving otherwise unsolvable cases) to the entire population, and make it mandatory to provide a DNA sample for all people, not just the ones being charged with a crime?

I don't see the harm in being in a properly safeguarded and regulated database, unless of course one plans to commit a criminal offense involving the depositing of DNA..

[Japher]

Nice idea

However, here in the US that violates a few laws having to do with your personal information... I am fine with them getting your DNA when you break the law and then running it against databases, I say do it even when you get a traffic ticket. Yet, requiring everyone to admit guilt is a 5th ammendment violation.

[Thrawn05]

I would support it.


But I won't support any type of tracking. I know a lot of schools are starting to GPS the kids. If my (future) kid(s)' school does that, it's off to private school.

And if GPS becomes mandantory, I'll leave the country or be forced to live in Interational waters living off fish and raiding Caribbian Cruise ships for Orange Juice and Lemonade.

[Donegeal]

While I don't think that getting your DNA on file is an admition of guilt (how did you come to that conclusion?), I don't feel like the majority of people need to have their sample on file. Most people are law biding citizens. I like the way its done here. Break the law, get DNA on file (actually, I think that DNA is only taken for sex offenders, but I might be wrong...).

[Donegeal]

Besides, coulds you imagine the money, and the size of the database, it would take to get the samples from 250,000,000 people?

[Japher]

While I don't think that getting your DNA on file is an admition of guilt

not getting it on file

getting it on file by the state mandating that it is required of all residence

i think you have to have done something wrong in order for them to make that demand

[Thrawn05]

How about people who Chimerism? With two sets of DNA. It takes years to find out.

Wow, I just proved myself against mandatory DNA profiles.

[VetLegion]

Winston, did you know that in many (most?) European countries, mandatory personal ID cards were introduced by the Nazis, and they kind of... never left?

This is not an attempt to Godwinize the thread, don't worry.

It's like this - there are two approaches to the citizen - state relationship. One treats the citizen as the center, and the other treats the state as the center.

In the past USA and UK have tended to the former (for which I admire them), while Europe and most of the rest of the world have tended to the later. This difference is observable in many things, from personal ID cards to ways in which economy is organized.

I feel that the idea of having to deposit a DNA sample for purposes of crime prevention and resolution the same as the idea that I have to deposit fingerprints. Offensive. In fact, I have to deposit fingerprints with the police when I am 16 in order to pick up my mandatory ID card. This card I have to carry with me at all times in order to prove my identity to the organs of the state.

This is fundamentaly wrong. I am a person and have rights simply because I exist. I shouldn't have to prove my identity to anyone. If the police think I did something wrong, they should prove it and not request me to prove that I am innocent.

Same with DNA. By asking 16 year olds to deposit DNA because they are potential criminals is sending a very wrong message to them. That's why I am opposed to the measure.

[Axxaer]

Not all that long ago they were (still are?) debating introducing ID cards in Australia.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/150705idcard.htm

[VetLegion]

It's supposed to be a "done thing" in UK too, unfortunately.

[Winston]

VetLegion,

Thanks for the short lecture on citizen/state relationships - not that I really needed it. Considering this would be for the express purpose of crime prevention, a grave concern of both the citizenry and the state, I also find it to be a little beside the point.

I don't think this carries much resemblance to mandatory identity cards; a DNA register is for internal use by the investigating authorities. If you spit in a tube once, you won't have to be bothered about it again, unless..

And where did the objection about the 16 year olds come from? This is supposed to include the entire population.

[KrazyHorse]

You Euros have no clue what it means to live in a free society, do you...

[Donegeal]

Yeah... I really don't see much of a point until after you have shown yourself to be a violator.

[Winston]

The point is that nearly all the old cases being solved through DNA matching are done so by having previously unknown DNA profiles added to the database.

As it is, people will have to re-offend to the degree of possibly facing 18 months' imprisonment (which is quite a lot here), before their DNA can be extracted and matched to that obtained as evidence in an unsolved case.

By making it mandatory for the entire population, you could solve every single case involving DNA as evidence in one tremendous sweep - and you'd have an invaluable tool for solving new cases + providing a very strong deterrent IMO for potential future offenders.

Donegeal, don't tell me you've forgotten you're supposed to always agree with me?

[Caligastia]

Making everyone give a DNA sample would be a huge undertaking...it just doesn't sound all that feasible. If you want DNA profiles of everyone it might be better to make it a long-term project. Start taking DNA samples of every newborn baby for example. I'm undecided as to whether I would support this or not...

However, I certainly support taking DNA samples from all imprisoned criminals, and I'd extend that to all immigrants as well.