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11 People Indicted in Ecoterrorism Plot

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  • #16
    Out of thier way?



    Officials Suspect Terror in Calif. Fire
    Officials Suspect Environmentalists Set San Diego Apartment Fire That Caused Millions in Damage

    The Associated Press

    SAN DIEGO Aug. 2 —
    Officials suspect radical environmentalists set a fire that swept through an unoccupied five-story apartment complex, causing more than $20 million in damage.

    A banner reading "If you build it, we will burn it," with the initials "ELF," was found Friday next to the burning building still under construction in the upscale University Town Centre residential neighborhood. No injuries were reported.

    The initials may correspond to the Earth Liberation Front, a loose-knit group that describes itself as "an international underground organization that uses direct action in the form of economic sabotage to stop the destruction of the natural environment."

    Members of ELF have claimed responsibility for dozens of fires and other acts since 1997, causing $50 million in damages to luxury homes, ski lodges and sport utility vehicles. There was no immediate claim of responsibility posted on the group's Web site.

    The group, which only communicates with the press by e-mail, issued a brief and vague statement in response to media inquiries:

    "The ELF press office has received no communique for the San Diego fire that took place Aug. 1, 2003, and thus cannot answer any questions as to why this location and city was chosen for the latest ELF action," the statement said. "The banner at the site reading `You build it we burn it ELF' is a legitimate claim of responsibility by the Earth Liberation Front."

    San Diego police, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and arson experts were investigating.

    Capt. Jeff Carle, of the San Diego Fire Department, said three construction workers who were sleeping on the site managed to escape the flames unharmed.

    "It could have killed someone," said Carle.

    Several hundred residents of a building next to the construction site were evacuated as heat from the blaze broke windows and melted plastic blinds in their homes.

    The 206-unit complex was part of a larger project approved by the City Council in late 2000 that included a hotel and offices. University Towne Centre is a rapidly growing area of apartment complexes and office buildings east of San Diego's tony La Jolla section.

    Carle said if environmentalists were behind the fire, he didn't understand their motivation: More trees would be cut down to rebuild the structure.
    I won't even bother with mentioning the lives of the firemen they put at risk.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #17
      set a fire that swept through an unoccupied five-story apartment complex
      they are reckless

      but they are not intentionally targeting people

      BIG DIFFERENCE THERE

      anyone who can't see that difference is a moron
      To us, it is the BEAST.

      Comment


      • #18
        I don't like the article magazine made about my criminal politics, I go order group of thugs to beat the journalist up and few workers on that business as well, for them to shut up and get the message. Terrorism? Using violence and threat for them to capitulate in front of my agenda? Hey let's make my agenda political too.

        Terrorism?

        Hardly.

        Criminal? Yes. The whole concept of terrorism has been Republicanized, but I expect that to go with the 'college students can't manage simple tasks today' and 'why ID is superior science to evolution & Darwin was racist'.

        In da butt.
        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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        • #19
          It's possible they didn't know those construction workers were sleeping there. It's very reasonable to expect nobody sleeps at a construction site.
          Their actions are dangerous and they're fanatics, but AFAIK they do not intentionally attempt to harm people and even do try to make precautions they'll not harm anyone. There were communist groups in Europe who also worked in this manner, targeting property rather than people.
          DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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          • #20
            Visit First Cultural Industries
            There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
            Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Pekka
              I don't like the article magazine made about my criminal politics, I go order group of thugs to beat the journalist up and few workers on that business as well, for them to shut up and get the message. Terrorism? Using violence and threat for them to capitulate in front of my agenda? Hey let's make my agenda political too.

              Terrorism?

              Hardly.

              Criminal? Yes. The whole concept of terrorism has been Republicanized, but I expect that to go with the 'college students can't manage simple tasks today' and 'why ID is superior science to evolution & Darwin was racist'.

              Bingo.

              Someone who gets it.
              To us, it is the BEAST.

              Comment


              • #22
                I think the key is that even though we can define terrorism being something of.. violent nature trying to affect politics, trying to what ever, ideologies etc.. the important thing to realize is that the word terrorism is strong. We associate it with OBL and the likes, so when you start calling other type of actions that might slip into the definition terrorism, well, it either lowers the level of terrorism that OBL and the likes do, or it lifts up the 'terrorism' that the called actor does, or both. Most likely both. It's like drawing the nazi card.

                We know that terrorism can be met with special resources and methods. That's what I think makes the real terrorism special. It requires wide action, be it intelligence, military, covert ops, what ever it is, it requires serious response, as it poses a threat to a magnitude that is high.

                Why is this important IMO? Because we tend to associate things with words, so if we start calling things terrorism we aren't sure, well we associate, or at least many will, the real international terrorism with what it is now attached to. Some say so what, I say well that's not the reality of the situation, it does not reflect the real world. What ever happened to criminal behaviour, criminal conspiracies and those kinds of things....

                Also I believe real terrorism requires human casualties.

                Everyone can disagree with me, but let's think about it.. if these folks are terrorist.. can we apply the special rules and laws apprehending and treating them, and judging them? I think that's taking it too far, because then I want to give OBL and the likes more. They aren't in the same level, thus they shouldn't be treated in the same level, not even in words describing ther action. Hidden danger lies there.
                In da butt.
                "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                Comment


                • #23
                  It's almost like saying 'it has four legs, it's furry, it's animal, it's a pet, it likes to be with people, it is fed by the owners, they have names' this it has to be a dog, even though it's a cat. And quite literally they are different animals.

                  And no it doesn't mean no one else but AQ can be terrorists. That was to somehow simplify the possibility of logical error type.
                  In da butt.
                  "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                  THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                  "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Smiley

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                    • #25
                      The nutters over at Democratic Underground are going bat **** crazy over this. I briefly considered trolling them but decided it wasn't worth the effort.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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