Cuba Ordered JFK Assassination

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


It sounds to me more like this ex-Intel officer is looking for a free meal ticket by pedeling, "OMFG, teh USSR/Cubans are evil" stories to gullibel right-wingers. There's a lot of money in that, and occassionally, you get a government that is gullible enough to believe you and invade your country too (Chalabi).

Could be. Didnt say I believed it. Certainly not on the word of one defector. Id be interested to see what the other sources he claims to have say though.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MosesPresley
I just realized something. If this is the bullet found on Kennedy's stretcher, how did it get from Connally back to Kennedy and end up on the stretcher?

It was found on Connally's stretcher.

[MosesPresley]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


It was found on Connally's stretcher.

Thanks for the correction. I couldn't figure out why I hadn't come to that earlier conclusion I made long before this thread.

[Odin]

Originally posted by MosesPresley
I just realized something. If this is the bullet found on Kennedy's stretcher, how did it get from Connally back to Kennedy and end up on the stretcher?

Kennedy's seat was higher than the Governor's seat, that image is BS.

When I said it was Oswald and only Oswald on Democratic Underground they came close to calling me a freeper.

[MosesPresley]

How much higher?

[MrFun]

If I find this thread in its entirety annoying, does this mean I can report all willing participants in this thread to the Feds?

[BillyBud]

Actually, the so-called "Magic Bullet" was the invention of an ambitious attorney called Arlen Specter.

Never, in the history of ballistics has there ever been a bullet which caused so many wounds, hit so many bones, and made so many turns (in mid-air) as did this magic bullet.

This bullet supposedly hit Kennedy in the back, made a sharp turn (inside his body), then hit another bone, exited his body, paused in the air for 1.6 seconds, then made a sharp right turn (in mid-air), then it made a sharp left turn (still in mid-air), then entered Connelly's body, exited, made another sharp turn, then hit his wrist, then made a U-turn (in mid-air), and then entered his thigh.

And this bullet was supposedly found on a stretcher in Parkland Hospital in pristine condition.

This bullet was not found on Connelly's or Kennedy's stretcher. It came from an unknown third stretcher. And thus there is NO direct link between it and any of the victims.

Darrell C. Tomlinson was the original discoverer of that magic bullet, CE 399. It came from a stretcher, but which stretcher?

In order to follow the journey of Connally's stretcher we need to pick up in the middle of Jimison's testimony where this becomes the focal point. This segment comes from the Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. 6 p. 126-128:

http://www.webcom.com/~lpease/collections/assassinations/jfk/ce399.htm

[BillyBud]

For those who don't know much about the problems associated with the Kennedy Assassination, and for those who wish to delve more fully into it themselves, here are some good starting points. It makes for a fascinating investigation.

If you haven't done so already, I would suggest watching the Director's Cut of Oliver Stone's highly controversial film JFK:

http://tinyurl.com/crpyz

Online is a very interesting read of the original Jim Garrison's Playboy Interview. Jim Garrison was the New Orleans District Attorney who prosecuted Clay Shaw in the Assassination of President Kennedy:

http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison2.html

An excellent (and highly readable) book that covers all of the relevent information about the assassination is: Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy:

http://tinyurl.com/ba8qs

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: Cuba Ordered JFK Assassination

Originally posted by Vince278
Here is the story. Not sure what to believe anymore. (It may as well have been Col Mustard in the library with a candlestick )

Nice claim, but it doesn't fit the timeline, as Oswald had no way of knowing at the time he was supposedly paid by the Cubans that he'd ever have any access to Kennedy.

[Odin]

Originally posted by BillyBud
This bullet supposedly hit Kennedy in the back, made a sharp turn (inside his body), then hit another bone, exited his body, paused in the air for 1.6 seconds, then made a sharp right turn (in mid-air), then it made a sharp left turn (still in mid-air), then entered Connelly's body, exited, made another sharp turn, then hit his wrist, then made a U-turn (in mid-air), and then entered his thigh.

This BS assertion, IIRC, is the result of thinking JFK was sitting directly behind and at the same seat heigth as Gov. Connelly. In all the pictures I've seen, Connally's seat was somewhat lower and slightly to the left of JFK's seat. One you have the positions correct the "bullet would of had to turn in mid-air" assertion is busted.

[Vince278]

Re: Re: Cuba Ordered JFK Assassination

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Nice claim, but it doesn't fit the timeline, as Oswald had no way of knowing at the time he was supposedly paid by the Cubans that he'd ever have any access to Kennedy.

Good point. I wonder who then arranged for the limo to pass by where Oswald just happened to be set up and waiting? Didn't someone earlier mention that the Dealy Plaza route was a last minute change? Even if Oswald didn't know then someone did which would indicate a conspiracy.

[BillyBud]

Originally posted by Odin


This BS assertion, IIRC, is the result of thinking JFK was sitting directly behind and at the same seat heigth as Gov. Connelly. In all the pictures I've seen, Connally's seat was somewhat lower and slightly to the left of JFK's seat. One you have the positions correct the "bullet would of had to turn in mid-air" assertion is busted.

Position of Kennedy and Connelly in the motorcade car:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/MC3.htm

Here is the full account of the "Travel history" of this "Magic Bullet":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Bullet_Theory

Whether Connelly was sitting to the right of Kennedy or was in front of Kennedy makes little difference, since, according to the magic bullet theory, when the bullet left Kennedy's throat it had to stop in mid-air and turn right and then left, since the bullet entered Connally's back just below and behind his right armpit creating a 8 millimeters by 15 millimeters elliptical wound, indicating that bullet was fired from an acute angle to the entrance wound point.

Let's assume for the moment that even if Connelly was sitting to the left of Kennedy, and assuming that the bullet didn't turn before it hit Connelly, the bullet would still have to turn in mid-air to hit Connelly's wrist, and it would have to make a U-turn in mid-air to strike his opposite thigh...

Even if the bullet didn't have to make any turns in mid-air at all, we are still left with the ridiculous result of the magic bullet:

After this "single bullet's" theorized trajectory, causing seven wounds while breaking two major body bones and depositing lead fragments along the way, the bullet appears nearly pristine. Its tip was still perfectly round (a small slice was later removed for analysis testing). Its body is flattened and curved on only one of six rotated views side. It has visible rifling barrel grooves.

This magic bullet:

* had no thread striations (fine lines etched onto a copper encased bullet tip and/or bullet side casing by clothing threads when the bullet first penetrates clothing threads),

* was marked with no blood,

* was marked with no human tissue,

* had no pieces of clothing attached,

* had lost only 1.5 % of its original average weight.


Several of the exact same type 6.5 millimeter test bullets were test-fired by the Warren Commission investigators. The only test bullet that most matched the slight side flattening and nearly pristine, still rounded impact tip of CE399 was a bullet that had only been fired into a long tube containing a thick layer of cotton.

If anyone still believes that a single bullet could make all these wounds and still come out looking almost in perfect condition, then I have some swampy real estate in Florida I'd like to sell them...

[BillyBud]

The following is from the District Attorney Jim Garrison's 1967 interview:

On Lee Harvey Oswald:


"[W]e do have proof that Oswald was recruited by the CIA in his Marine Corps days, when he was mysteriously schooled in Russian and allowed to subscribe to Pravda. And shortly before his trip to the Soviet Union, we have learned, Oswald was trained as an intelligence agent at the CIA installation at Japan's Atsugi Air Force Base --- which may explain why no disciplinary action was taken against him when he returned to the U.S. from the Soviet Union, even though he had supposedly defected with top-secret information about our radar networks. The money he used to return to the U.S., incidentally, was advanced to him by the State Department."


Why Kennedy was Assassinated:

"President Kennedy was killed for one reason: because he was working for a reconciliation with the U.S.S.R. and Castro's Cuba. His assassins were a group of fanatic anti-Communists with a fusion of interests in preventing Kennedy from achieving peaceful relations with the Communist world.

"On the operative level of the conspiracy, you find anti-Castro Cuban exiles who never forgave Kennedy for failing to send in U.S. air cover at the Bay of Pigs and who feared that the thaw following the Missile Crisis in October 1962 augured the total frustration of their plans to liberate Cuba. They believed sincerely that Kennedy had sold them out to the Communists.

"On a higher, control level, you find a number of people of ultra-right-wing persuasion --- not simply conservatives, mind you, but people who could be described as neo-Nazi, including a small clique that had defected from the Minutemen because it considered the group "too liberal." These elements had their canteens ready and their guns loaded; they lacked only a target. After Kennedy's domestic moves toward racial integration and his attempts to forge a peaceful foreign policy, as exemplified by his signing of the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, they found that target.

"So both of these groups had a vital stake in changing U.S. foreign policy --- ideological on the part of the paramilitary rightists and both ideological and personal with the anti-Castro exiles, many of whom felt they would never see their homes again if Kennedy's policy of detente was allowed to succeed. The CIA was involved with both of these groups. In the New Orleans area, where the conspiracy was hatched, the CIA was training a mixed bag of Minutemen, Cuban exiles and other anti-Castro adventurers north of Lake Pontchartrain for a foray into Cuba and an assassination attempt on Fidel Castro. David Ferrie, who operated on the "command" level of the ultra-rightists, was deeply involved in this effort.

"The CIA itself apparently did not take the détente too seriously until the late summer of 1963, because it maintained its financing and training of anti-Castro adventurers. There was, in fact, a triangulation of CIA-supported anti-Castro activity between Dallas --- where Jack Ruby was involved in collecting guns and ammunition for the underground --- and Miami and New Orleans, where most of the training was going on. But then, Kennedy, who had signed a secret agreement with Khrushchev after the Missile Crisis pledging not to invade Cuba if Russia would soft-pedal Castro's subversive activities in the Americas, began to crackdown on CIA operations against Cuba. As a result, on July 31, 1963, the FBI raided the headquarters of the group of Cuban exiles and Minutemen training north of Lake Pontchartrain and confiscated all their guns and ammunition --- despite the fact that the operation had the sanction of the CIA. This action may have sealed Kennedy's fate.

"By the early fall of 1963, Kennedy's plan for a detente with Cuba was in high gear. Ambassador William Attwood, a close personal friend of the late President, recounts that a thaw in U.S.-Cuban relations was definitely in the works at this time and "the President more than the State Department was interested in exploring the [Cuban] overture." One of the intermediaries between Castro and Kennedy was the late television commentator Lisa Howard, who met secretly with Ernesto Che Guevara to prepare peace terms between the U.S. and Castro. Miss Howard was arranging a conference between Bobby Kennedy and Guevara when the President was shot in Dallas. In a United Nations speech on October 7, 1963, Adlai Stevenson set forth the possibility of a termination of hostilities between the two countries, and on November 19th. Presidential aide McGeorge Bundy, who was acting as an intermediary in the secret discussions, told Ambassador Attwood that the President wanted to discuss his plans for a Cuban-American detente in depth with him right after "a brief trip to Dallas." The rest is history.

"One of the two heads of state involved in negotiating that detente is now dead, but the survivor, Fidel Castro, said on November 23rd that the assassination was the work of "elements in the U.S. opposed to peace," and the Cuban Foreign Ministry officially charged that "the Kennedy assassination was a provocation against world peace perfectly and minutely prepared by the most reactionary sectors of the United States."

"Most Americans at the time, myself included, thought this was just Communist propaganda. But Castro knew what he was talking about. A few weeks after the assassination, the Cuban ambassador to the UN, Dr. Carlos Lechuga, was instructed by Castro to begin "formal discussions" in the hope that Kennedy's peace plan would be carried on by his successor.

"Ambassador Attwood writes that "I informed Bundy and later was told that the Cuban exercise would be put on ice for a while --- which it was and where it has been ever since." The assassins had achieved their aim."

http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison2.html

[Vince278]

Originally posted by BillyBud
with the anti-Castro exiles, many of whom felt they would never see their homes again if Kennedy's policy of detente was allowed to succeed.

Most of them probably like it right where they are at now, Castro or no Castro.

[mrmitchell]

billybud or others who can help:
I don't have time to search it on my own right now but at what dates (at least years) was Oswald sent to Russia, and came back to the US?

I don't think they could have planned his assassination before he even won the election. That would be ridiculous.

Also: Has anyone studied Russian records, if any exist, on Oswald or the assassination? I mean, an exile from your biggest enemy comes, used to be in the CIA etc, knows perfect Russian. They're going to want to keep an eye on him right?