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Did Jesus exist? Court to decide

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  • #61
    Originally posted by CyberShy
    A believe that has spread that quickly to all corners of the roman empire can't be based on somebody who didn't exist.
    I'd not be so quick to say "can't"; but I'll agree that it's not the way to bet.

    Oh, not to mention that even the Jesus Seminar believed that Jesus had existed, ultra-liberal christians.
    Believing that Jesus never existed is really for those who have no clue. There's much more evidence for the existance of Jesus then for most people from that period, not to mention the millenia before 1AD.
    Of course, the typical amount of evidence we have for the existence of a randomly selected individual person of that time is "zero". Those who are even mentioned by name in any surviving written sources are the rare exceptions.

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    • #62
      Jesus must have existed. It has taken 2000 years after the fact to deny Him yet people were denying the Holocaust immediately after the fact despite documentary evidence and eye witness accounts from both sides.

      Anyway, religion by its very nature is based on faith and is not designed to stand up in a court of law.
      "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
      "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
      2004 Presidential Candidate
      2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

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      • #63
        Originally posted by DinoDoc
        Then why the lack of jokes at the yo-yos expense?
        What are we supposed to say? "The bozo has set him a task he can't possible succeed with, muahahahaha"? That's not exactly funny.

        Christianity, OTOH, is a reliable punching bag!
        Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

        It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
        The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

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        • #64
          Eastern religions are most definitely violent. Yes, even Buddism. Go to Wikipedia and look up the history of Tibet. Its history is no different than any other country on any other continent. Full of wars, oppressive leaders, land grabs, etc. Same with the rest of Asian countries.

          Men are just nasty, aggressive creatures. What is good about religion of course is at least it tries to soften that nature and give humanity something better and more peaceful to aspire to. Instead of atheists and folks like Nietzsche who seem to revel in and praise that brutish nature. Of course people seem more pissed off about a person or ideology who aspires to great things and falls short than someone who aspires to nothing and succeeds.
          Last edited by OzzyKP; January 5, 2006, 11:15.
          Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

          When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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          • #65
            Bah. Aetheists can (and do) have aspirations - they just don't require that those aspirations come "from God."

            Jesus, from what we can tell, had some good ideas. Yay. I don't think he was God, but that doesn't mean his ideas are suddenly different worse (or better). The best one, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" makes perfect sense, whether or not you believe in God.

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment

            • #66
              Originally posted by Last Conformist
              What are we supposed to say? "The bozo has set him a task he can't possible succeed with, muahahahaha"? That's not exactly funny.
              I dunno. Nut jobs are usually a barrel of laughs. Look at that Timecube guy.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Arrian
                Bah. Aetheists can (and do) have aspirations - they just don't require that those aspirations come "from God."

                Jesus, from what we can tell, had some good ideas. Yay. I don't think he was God, but that doesn't mean his ideas are suddenly different worse (or better). The best one, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" makes perfect sense, whether or not you believe in God.

                -Arrian
                "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by OzzyKP
                  What is good about religion of course is at least it tries to soften that nature and give humanity something better and more peaceful to aspire to.
                  While inspiring men to engage in the most atrocious acts possible, of course.

                  Instead of atheists ... who seem to revel in and praise that brutish nature.
                  I'm an atheist and i'm a lot less violent than most religious people i know.
                  What?

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                  • #69
                    Only some loony history revisionists would deny that Jesus existed, and even an atheist could agree that his philosophy is worth following. But who knows if his talk about "Son of God" wasn't just another one of his metaphors? Anyway, I don't see how anything of this could belong in a court of justice.

                    The problem with Christianity is all those who claim to be believers but don't follow the words of Christ.

                    Has anyone ever seen a Christian fundie turn the other cheek?
                    So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
                    Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Richelieu
                      I'm an atheist and i'm a lot less violent than most religious people i know.
                      and humble too apparently.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Sn00py
                        You all can easily believe that Caesar was real, but why can't you believe Jesus was real? Oh, is it because if you believe in Jesus, you will accidently believe in God to?
                        Ceasar was a man, and it's quite easy to imagine that a man once existed. Jesus was the son of God, which is a lot harder to imagine. It's like me asking:

                        You can easily believe in Ceasar, why not a giant blue space monster that teaches that we should care for hamsters above all else?

                        I don't really care whether or not a man called Jesus existed, however I would like to see evidence that if he dod, he was the son of God. That's the bit I take issue with.
                        Smile
                        For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                        But he would think of something
                        "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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                        • #72
                          I'm surprised someone hasn't tried this in the UK. Our libel laws mean that if you state something, and someone sues, the burden of proof is on you to show that what you said was true.

                          Originally posted by Vince278
                          Anyway, religion by its very nature is based on faith and is not designed to stand up in a court of law.
                          Then don't teach it as the truth. If you want to teach something as the truth, you generally need to be able to show it's true.
                          Smile
                          For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                          But he would think of something
                          "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            Originally posted by OzzyKP
                            All the time. Why do people have such hatred for a guy who came here to tell everyone to love their neighbor? Are athiests really that fricken pissed off by love, peace, compassion, charity and tolerance? I'll never understand.
                            I'm an atheist, and I try to live with the values typical of Jesus (mostly, the golden rule). What does that make me?
                            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                            • #74
                              You make Baby Jesus cry, Spiff. First, you're a commie, ergo you're godless, ergo you hate baby jesus. So he cries. Second, you're French.

                              -Arrian
                              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by OzzyKP
                                What is sad is that a lot of people in this thread don't see him as a yo-yo, but a "holy crusader against the evil scourge of Christianity."
                                Who?
                                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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