US to deport alleged Nazi guard

[Pekka]

I would expect new evidence (remarkable) to have shown up since the last trial and I also expect his role in the whole guard thing to be significant for him to be tried at this date and after been freed by Israeli courts.

Then again, you never know. But I would assume this is the case, otherwise it makes no sense.

[Chemical Ollie]

They should employ him in Guantanamo

[Sikander]

He was suspected of being a certain more famous war criminal (Ivan the Terrible) and was tried in Israel for this and acquitted. After the wall fell more evidence turned up that showed that while he was not Ivan the Terrible, he was a guard at several camps during the war. Hence the new charges.

[Dinner]

16 years after the wall fell does seem like a rather long period to be sitting on this case.

[child of Thor]

They should ship all of Bushes family(gave money to the nazis before the war kicked off) as well if they are after this old man(who was following orders as all soldiers have to. even sicko nazi ones.)

[Winston]

The knee-jerkism and ignorant posturing by some in this thread is truely baffling.

[Ecthy]

Denmark has some really clever and cool people.

I wonder why none of them have posted in this thread.

[Zoid]

[Capt Dizle]

Demjanjuk was born in the Ukraine, drafted into the Soviet army, captured by Germany and, probably, recruited as a guard by the SS.

If he was a criminal, he was a victim too.

How many Soviet citizens died in WW2? Did this man have any choice other than to die in a German camp or cooperate in hope of survival?

This is a man with many enemies: Nazis, Soviets, Jews, and even US Federal prosecutors who have been charged with misconduct in his case. Israel’s Supreme Court found insufficient evidence to find that he was Ivan the Terrible, now he is bound to stand trial in a Ukrainian court where it is questionable that he will have the legal safeguards necessary to protect him from what has become a political, not criminal matter.

How can anything be proved conclusively after 60 years have passed?

Enough already.

[Patroklos]

They should ship all of Bushes family(gave money to the nazis before the war kicked off) as well if they are after this old man(who was following orders as all soldiers have to. even sicko nazi ones.)

Awesome logic. I guess we should execute every living German as well.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I know Ecthy is for it

[Edan]

Originally posted by Ecthy


In 1944 you would have hated half of Europe's population for helping them with the holocaust in one way or another.

Probably. But I think there is a big difference from those hundreds of thousands and guards at death camps..

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'd argue it depends on the level of involvement of the guard. What did they do?

I mean if the death penalty was decided to be a crime against humanity in the future, should US death row guards be subject to jail time for their part?

[Pekka]

I also think it depends on his involvement. If he was just a normal guard, what ever that meant in nazi terms, I would wonder if this is worth it now.

However, what does normal nazi guard of death camp mean, I mean you have to apply to get there or something. Besides I read somewhere that some of the guards were usually selected because they were cruel and prone to sadism, in the nazi camps, and me thinks you thne need some kind of credit or credibility to even work there as guard. I remember it was common for criminals to be those guards, because they could be trusted to not turn their back on violence.

Now, if he only guarded, never executed anyone, never did any extra activity of his own to build a reputation, I don't see where his HUGE crime is today. If he was sadist, taking matters to his own hands and performing some of the deeds with a smile on his face.. THEN I would think differently and seek for his penalty.

Many camps outside nazi and Germany had brutal conditions, brutal guards, below human rights conditions, let's just look at how many germans died in camps, even after the war.

Are those guards even subject of warrants? I don't think they are. I think this case needs to be handled pragmatically, because it was so long time ago. Meaning, if he commited criminal acts other than being a nazi, then he could and should be tried. If not, and merely was a guard and never really was an actor in horrible crimes, I think this is just waste of time and seeing through the rest of his life would be ruined, and if that's the case, it's not blind justice anymore.

[Capt Dizle]

We need to get a better understanding of this. Demjanjuk was a Soviet soilder, captured, a prisoner of war and in a POW camp.

Thousands of Soviet POWs died in captivity. The Germans had a manpower problem and solved it by offering POWs a choice between remaining in brutal conditions and face possible starvation or becoming a guard or functionary. Many of these men had been conscripted into the Soviet army in the first place.

Many chose survival. I am sure that many ended up doing horrible things, but keep in mind that if at any point they had refused, they would have been certainly shot or gassed themselves. If the Jews who were gassed were decieved into thinking that they were just taking showers on the way to a work camp, don't you think that these men were decieved about what they were going to be forced to do when they "volunteered"?

There is no doubt they were between a rock and a hard place. I have to empathize.

Demjanjuk claimed he remained a POW throughout the war. This is probably a false claim. But probably is not enough. There needs to be evidence to support war crimes.

This man was not a Nazi. He was not German. He was forced to work in a SS run unit consisting of other POWs.

The evidence against him is slim, documents provided by the USSR and eyewitness identifications that were tainted and rejected by Israel's Supreme Court.

This passage of time certainly impacts this man's ability to provide a defense. Witnesses that might clear him could have died or been lost in the aftermath of the war. Many documents were destroyed by the Germans during the last stages of the war and it is reasonable to question many documents that have surfaced. This case is very politically charged.

Enough already. Let the old man die be judged by God.