Question for Ming and JohnT, and other interested parties

[notyoueither]

I am being told that directory usage, such as of the Yellow Pages, has been increasing over the past five years. So that would mean that rates for ads in those publications warrant being higher now than five years ago, rather than decreasing due to lower usage.

I don't believe it, off hand.

I know John was in the game, or at least connected to the industry, and might have some useful information. Ming is entirely in the game. What do you two say? Is Yellow Pages advertising worth more, less, or the same as it was five years ago? Anybody else?

My market is a growing one (more and more people every year). Is that enough to overcome the rising influence of online substitutes for conventional directories?

How about when your target market is computers and your customers can be considered the biggest users of the internet?

How many of the rest of you have Yellow Pages, or similar directory, in your home? How many of you use it?

Any info appreciated.

[DanS]

Perhaps appropos of nothing, but the big companies that own directory businesses are trying to shed these businesses.

[notyoueither]

That doesn't sound good.

[Dinner]

Does this increase in directory usage include the increase in online searches?

[notyoueither]

Pure print. These are rates for larger ads in the printed directories. They charge more for on line snake oil.

[KrazyHorse]

I have a couple of yellow pages in the house somewhere

I use two of them stacked on a chair every time I replace a light bulb.

[JohnT]

Re: Question for Ming and JohnT, and other interested parties

Originally posted by notyoueither I am being told that directory usage, such as of the Yellow Pages, has been increasing over the past five years. So that would mean that rates for ads in those publications warrant being higher now than five years ago, rather than decreasing due to lower usage.

I don't believe it, off hand.

I know John was in the game, or at least connected to the industry, and might have some useful information. Ming is entirely in the game. What do you two say? Is Yellow Pages advertising worth more, less, or the same as it was five years ago? Anybody else?

My market is a growing one (more and more people every year). Is that enough to overcome the rising influence of online substitutes for conventional directories?

How about when your target market is computers and your customers can be considered the biggest users of the internet?

How many of the rest of you have Yellow Pages, or similar directory, in your home? How many of you use it?

Any info appreciated.

I don't sell ads, I just deliver the things.

However, don't believe your salesman. While "directory usage", as defined by some vaguely and unknown worded poll, might have gone up, what do you think, in your gut?

Thought so.

There was a time about 5-odd years ago when Yellow Page ad sales increased quite a bit, but that was more of people taking money out of internet ad sales and placing it in more traditional sources during the dot.com bust. The directories themselves became quite valuable, but really only in relation to their severely depressed telecom parent units - back in 2000, 2001 there was quite a bit of movement within the industry as struggling telecoms sold their cash-cow directory subsidiaries to other struggling telecoms.

They still make money - a properly sold directory covering 100,000 people should pull in over $2 million in revenue (a book costs anywhere between $4-$12 to print). Some of the ads are far more expensive than you think - putting a tab insert in a 100k print phone book can set you back over $135,000, taking the back cover is actually cheaper - about $120,000. This, of course, is paid in monthly installments, which is why the directories became popular a few years ago - good cash flow in an advertising market that is actually increasing in volume.

Answering your question is pretty simple: If your new business is all internet referrals, and you don't need to change that, then there's nothing a phone book could offer you. If, however, you get a lot of local business from people calling you on the phone, then a strong presence in a phone book is still a must.

I know when I look something up, like a car repair place, that I first look at ads.

[Ming]

Re: Question for Ming and JohnT, and other interested parties

Sorry... I was busy the other day and just missed this thread...

Originally posted by notyoueither
I am being told that directory usage, such as of the Yellow Pages, has been increasing over the past five years. So that would mean that rates for ads in those publications warrant being higher now than five years ago, rather than decreasing due to lower usage.

I don't believe it, off hand.

I don't believe it either... while Yellow Page/directory usage could be considered "up" if you included both online and print together, usage of the print version has been in serious decline over the last five years thanks to online versions.

As John points out, they are still making money... local business are loath to walk away from what used to be their best source of new customers... but research indicates now that more and more and more people are shifting to online.

Some categories are still strong for the print version.
Plumbers, local food home delivery, garage door repairs, and other such categories where the additional information provided by ads are as more important then the listings...

In categories like Doctors... Lawyers... retail... or where you already know who you want, the online versions are superior.

Research shows that in some cases, the only time a person uses the print version is when they don't have access to the internet

While there used to be a ton of agencies who specialized in only placing local yellow page ads for national clients (very labor intensive and most agencies won't touch that kind of work), most of them have either consolidated or folded... a sign that the business is dying.

Is Yellow Pages advertising worth more, less, or the same as it was five years ago? Anybody else?

Less by far... but many companies are starting to bundle print and online together as a package deal. Then it depends on the value of both combined.

My market is a growing one (more and more people every year). Is that enough to overcome the rising influence of online substitutes for conventional directories?

You could always test the directories... put some kind of special offer in the directory... and see if at the end, it paid off to use the directory.

How about when your target market is computers and your customers can be considered the biggest users of the internet?

That is a category that is now dead in the print version.
Online rules... unless you are selling pc consulting services to individuals who don't know anything about computers... then the yellow pages still make sense.

How many of the rest of you have Yellow Pages, or similar directory, in your home? How many of you use it?

We still have tons of different yellow pages in our home. They sit on a shelf. They rarely get looked at.
We might go through them when we first get them to see if their are any good coupons we might use...

[mrmitchell]

Re: Question for Ming and JohnT, and other interested parties

Originally posted by notyoueither

How many of the rest of you have Yellow Pages, or similar directory, in your home? How many of you use it?

Any info appreciated.

We have one. But all we use it for is looking up the pizza place's number.

(This is kind of a function of living in a small city. If we didnt already personally know everyone who provided all the services we need, we would probably go to the phone book more often to look things up.)

[Jon Miller]

I just use online to look things up

I don't even know where our yellow book is

Jm

[Japher]

we have one

it takes up the space in one of the drawers

[JohnT]

Plumbers, local food home delivery, garage door repairs, and other such categories where the additional information provided by ads are as more important then the listings...

Like I said... local businesses who get a bunch of at-need, cold-call referrals. Those are perfect for phone books. Others... not so much, not anymore.

You could always test the directories... put some kind of special offer in the directory... and see if at the end, it paid off to use the directory.

Ming's talking coupons and such, but another popular way to test this is, if the ad is big enough, the directory company will pay for a phone line/number so that directory ad response can be tracked to a unique phone #. This is quite popular with, as you would expect, pizza places as it gives them a free line in which to take orders and a means to test their ads effectiveness.

That is a category that is now dead in the print version.
Online rules... unless you are selling pc consulting services to individuals who don't know anything about computers... then the yellow pages still make sense.

Yup. It's a decent reference (how many and which computer resellers are in my area), but if I actually want to buy a computer, I go online.

[Spiffor]

Re: Question for Ming and JohnT, and other interested parties

Originally posted by notyoueither
How many of the rest of you have Yellow Pages, or similar directory, in your home? How many of you use it?

It's been years since I've last used the book. However, I use the Internet service that is prvided by the same company Very frequently.

[Barinthus]

I don't even have a phone. My communication needs are very different from most (to go into this would be threadjacking so I won't do that). However I do use the online version often.

[Kataphraktoi]

Re: Re: Question for Ming and JohnT, and other interested parties

Originally posted by mrmitchell


We have one. But all we use it for is looking up the pizza place's number.

I dont even use em for that. I just go to their website for the number.