Has Bush changed?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I thought it was remarkable that for the first time (that I can recall) he actually admitted without waffling that we did not find any WMD in Iraq. He also admitted that the intelligence was wrong when we went in.

For all the people who pressed him to admit mistakes or errors, I think y'all should be giving him more credit for this stuff.

I give him credit for this. It is good though he seems to have only done so after nearly three years of lying resulted in his poll numbers sinking into the toilet. "Hey, lying has worked so maybe we should being slightly honest?"

They still blocked the investigation into seeing what really happened with the pre-war intelligence. Of course if I fixed intelligence so that it said the opposite of what every intelligence service in the western world said then made the intelligence service a scapegoat for my own personal crusade then I'd try to stop people learning about the truth too.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by AnnC


He finally admitted that the intelligence about WMD was wrong but insists that he would have invaded Iraq anyway.

So what does that tell you? It means that intelligence about WMD wasn't Bush's primary motive for the Iraq war (as he claimed at the time), there must have been some other reason. He owes it to the American people to tell us what that reason was.

He said it multiple times when overnor of Texas. He was pissed off that Saddam tried to assassinate his father (and he did try though it was a joke of an operation which had zero chance of success) when Bush Sr. was visiting Kuwait in 1995 or so. Bush Jr. then said if he was ever able he'd get Saddam. It seems that was exactly what Jr. did. He started a grossly expensive war which killed over 2000 Americans, numberous allied soldiers, and tens of thousand of Iraqis just so he could get personal revenge.

It is clear there was no threat and the administration knew it but told everyone (including the CIA and British intelligence) they were wrong and did it anyway. That's not faulty intelligence that is deliberately lying to go on a personal vendetta. That's more then a little megalamania.

[Jon Miller]

umm

there was faulty intelligence

even people who were against the war say that...

I do think that there was not enough evidence to go to war because of it, and that Bush would have gone to war without evidence (if we let him), but there still was some evidence (if not very good)

and I even think that there was not a whole lot of faking of evidence by the Bush Admin..

and the war to topple Saddam wasn't all that bad (wasn't really moral, but wasn't that bad..), what has been bad is trying to make peace in that area

one of me freinds thinks we invaded Iraq to help out Israel, I think he is a little out there (I think you are closer to right then him)

Jon Miller
(I think we invaded because of
1 Oil
2 They were an enemy that we could defeat
3 Personal Vendetta
)

[Odin]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Americans wanted a "tough", "decisive" flip flopper, the one who could do what is right even if he had to kill kittens (or 30k innocent people as it might have happened). he is just doing what you elected him to do, which is speak tougher to make you all safer.

That is what the man does best.

well you elected him again so enjoy the fruits of his labour now

Actually, we didn't elect him, Diebold stole it for him. That is why the election results were way off compared to the exit polls.

[DanS]

Bush also mentioned the 30k dead Iraqis.

Interesting. I don't know if it's a correct move, because as demonstrated here, it doesn't change any opinions on the matter, and we could do the reaper's math anyway.

[germanos]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I thought it was remarkable that for the first time (that I can recall) he actually admitted without waffling that we did not find any WMD in Iraq. He also admitted that the intelligence was wrong when we went in.

For all the people who pressed him to admit mistakes or errors, I think y'all should be giving him more credit for this stuff.

Originally posted by AnnC

He finally admitted that the intelligence about WMD was wrong but insists that he would have invaded Iraq anyway.

So what does that tell you? It means that intelligence about WMD wasn't Bush's primary motive for the Iraq war (as he claimed at the time), there must have been some other reason. He owes it to the American people to tell us what that reason was.

AnnC

Bush deserves no credit for his 'admission' at all.

[Arrian]

Waaaaaaaay late. The Bushies tried ignoring reality and spinning far to long for me to accept this faux "honesty" now.

**** him and the horse he rode in on.

-Arrian

[Dis]

I actually respect Bush for sticking to his guns.

No, I'm serious. . He made some good points the other day about not handing Iraq over to the terrorists. That would only make the terrorism problem worse. We have to stay in Iraq. There is no other choice. The war in Iraq initially had nothing to do with terrorism, but it does now. If we are going to pretend to fight a war on terror, we have to stay in Iraq.

President Bush

He's a terrible president, but good for him for sticking with this Iraq thing.

And I'm proud of myself for staying on topic. I was so tempted to make a post about the vulgar slang connotation of bush, but I refrained. Though my hand is shaking from the effort.

[Arrian]

Of course we have to stick it out for a while yet - we've no choice, because Dip**** Dubya got us into this. Now we're stuck with his mess. Yay.

-Arrian

[Elok]

Originally posted by Odin
He's probably drinking too much.

That's the weird thing, he's been on the wagon for decades. But he's still belligerent, touchy, clumsy, stumbles over simple words and behaves erratically. Do we have any data on what he was like when he did drink? Maybe booze made him act like a sober person somehow.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Oerdin


49% of us didn't.

Well, actually, Oerdin...

I think about 61% voted; 49% voted against Bush, meaning that only 30% of the US voted against Bush.

Or, if you want to make it look better, 61% voted, 51% for Bush, meaning only 31% voted for him--and so, 69% of people in the United States did not vote for Bush.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Dis
I actually respect Bush for sticking to his guns.

No, I'm serious. . He made some good points the other day about not handing Iraq over to the terrorists. That would only make the terrorism problem worse. We have to stay in Iraq. There is no other choice. The war in Iraq initially had nothing to do with terrorism, but it does now. If we are going to pretend to fight a war on terror, we have to stay in Iraq.

President Bush

He's a terrible president, but good for him for sticking with this Iraq thing.

And I'm proud of myself for staying on topic. I was so tempted to make a post about the vulgar slang connotation of bush, but I refrained. Though my hand is shaking from the effort.

The Iraqis want us OUT. If we don't listen to that and leave it reinforces the perception ammong the Arab world that the Iraqi government is a US puppet. No matter what we do, Iraq is f*cked. There are allready reports of innocent Sunnis being tortured by Shia millitias. Iraq is going to become a Shia Tyranny-by-Majority no matter what, and it is better if we are not stuck there when the sh*t hits the fan.

[Dis]

show me evidence that a majority of the Iraq population wants us out.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

Well, actually, Oerdin...

I think about 61% voted; 49% voted against Bush, meaning that only 30% of the US voted against Bush.

Or, if you want to make it look better, 61% voted, 51% for Bush, meaning only 31% voted for him--and so, 69% of people in the United States did not vote for Bush.

Don't forget about all the disenfranchised people who were unable to vote.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Dis
show me evidence that a majority of the Iraq population wants us out.

I head it on NPR, can't rember the exact numbers, though.