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Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Dis is right. Car accidents kill over 50,000 people a year. That's 10 times the number of 9-11 every year.
Yes, but car accidents are ... accidents. Nobody is deliberately causing these deaths. In the case of terrorism, we have a group of people who are deliberately trying to kill us.
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
Indeed, and we have to take that threat seriously. It's just that the "Patriot" Act (what a godawful, insulting name! Borderline fascist, if you ask me, and I don't throw that tag around lightly) doesn't significantly improve our fight against terrorism, whilst it DOES significantly impact our Liberty. **** that. to the PA.
Originally posted by Arrian
Indeed, and we have to take that threat seriously. It's just that the "Patriot" Act (what a godawful, insulting name! Borderline fascist, if you ask me, and I don't throw that tag around lightly) doesn't significantly improve our fight against terrorism, whilst it DOES significantly impact our Liberty. **** that. to the PA.
-Arrian
Has the Patriot Act been abused? Have there been cases where a court has ruled that a person's civil liberties were violated by the Patriot Act? Surely if the PA has impacted our liberties, the ACLU must have won lots of cases in court where the government was found at fault. Enlighten me!
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
Originally posted by Arrian
Somehow I doubt any examples I dig up (and no, I'm not gonna, simply b/c I'm too lazy today - maybe tomorrow) will past muster with you.
-Arrian
Show me legit examples and I'll believe you. I am not as partisan as some folks around here seem to think. If the PA is abusing civil liberties, I'll be first in line to call for change.
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
some guy wrote a paper and was visited by some DHS agents - big woop.
Way back in the bad old days of the cold war, I attended high school in NYC. I was a member of the Stuyvesant High School Rapid Transit Club (oy vey, I know) While others obtained histories of the New York City subway, I took it upon myself to gather maps and other info on subway systems abroad. I got most of my info by contacting consulates and/or UN missions in NY of countries I knew to have metro systems. So naturally I wrote to the Soviet UN mission (damned commies wrote back to say they had no info - least responsive of all the countries id contacted) . What I didnt realize was that the FBI routinely monitored EVERY letter to the Soviet Mission. It turns out that two FBI men came to my home and asked my parents (I was out at the time) what was up. They explained, and everything was hunky dory. They didnt even tell me about it till years later (didnt want me to worry, I guess) since then Ive been approved for US govt Secret Security clearance.
Really, a routine visit is not necessarily a big deal.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Show me legit examples and I'll believe you. I am not as partisan as some folks around here seem to think. If the PA is abusing civil liberties, I'll be first in line to call for change.
I already showed legit examples.
Do you think it's okay for the FBI to demand all the names of people statying in Las Vegas hotels?
Do you think it's okay for the FBI to demand all the names of people statying in Las Vegas hotels?
If they done that when Bugsy Siegal first built Las Vegas, theyd have been way ahead
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
some guy wrote a paper and was visited by some DHS agents - big woop.
That the DHS is wasting resources on tracking who checks out potentially "anti-American" books by monitoring our personal library records is a big deal. I tend to prefer that the folks who are ostensibly securing my homeland not be needlessly intrusive or idiotic. But that's just me.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
That the DHS is wasting resources on tracking who checks out potentially "anti-American" books by monitoring our personal library records is a big deal. I tend to prefer that the folks who are ostensibly securing my homeland not be needlessly intrusive or idiotic. But that's just me.
Oh, its a resource issue. I thought you were implying it was a threat to liberty
Im not enthused about the policy, from the civil liberty viewpoint as well as the resource one, Im just questioning how big the concern is. And your post reminded me of my own past, so i thought id share it. give a little historical perspective, ya know?
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
to the PA.
. What I didnt realize was that the FBI routinely monitored EVERY letter to the Soviet Mission. It turns out that two FBI men came to my home and asked my parents (I was out at the time) what was up. They explained, and everything was hunky dory. They didnt even tell me about it till years later (didnt want me to worry, I guess) since then Ive been approved for US govt Secret Security clearance. 
. Okay it's really just bad drivers that are the real terrorists.
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