Suspected Terrorist = Actual Terrorist

[Mr. Harley]

This has been bothering me for quite a long time now, and the Masri case (the German mistakenly kidnapped by the CIA and abused, etc. in one of the "secrect" CIA prisons) brings it to the fore. With all these cases of Gitmo, or Abu Graib, or these rendition cases - the individuals involved are only SUSPECTED.

That is what has been bothering me most of all about this administration. Whether it was the Canadian the US Authorities seized and shipped to Syria - the mistaken name bit again - where he was tortured, or Mr. Masri, or any of several other cases - including most of the prisoners at Abu Graib - these individuals have NEVER BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING, AND SOME OF THEM WERE INNOCENT.

Think about that, and roll the taste around in your mouth. It reminds me more of the taste of rotten meat instead of veal. Not only is it counter-productive, serving as both a powerful recruiting image for Muslim fundamentalist - look at how Al Jezera is covering it - this is NOT the US our founding fathers envisaged. No due process, no speedy trial, sure as hell no right against self-incrimination (which was based on torture FYI and now I see why they phrased it like they did - so people like Gonzales couldn't weasle around it domestically - it wasn't REALLY torture), etc.

If they were using these techniques solely against those convicted of terrorism, even if in a military tribunal - I would still find it disturbing, and wrong. But the current policies, and the excuse well they are not US citizens, and we have this war against terror - they disgust me. I never thought I could be this ashamed of the actions of my government.

[Winston]

Boo-hoo.

I'd be more concerned about the suspected terrorists that aren't yet incarcerated.

[dannubis]

yes, we know you are...

still supporting freedom i see

[PLATO]

How many prisoners of war have been given "speedy trials" in the past?

Just curious if this is just part of the "Bash the US" campaign or if their was some change in the way prisoners of war are supposed to be treated.

Or...are you implying that this is not a war? That this is simple criminal investigations?

Not really clear here.

[BeBMan]

I think Winston is supporting terrorism, call the CIA.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by PLATO
How many prisoners of war

I thought that the prisoners in those facilities weren't POWs?

[Admiral]

Originally posted by PLATO
How many prisoners of war have been given "speedy trials" in the past?

Just curious if this is just part of the "Bash the US" campaign or if their was some change in the way prisoners of war are supposed to be treated.

Or...are you implying that this is not a war? That this is simple criminal investigations?

Not really clear here.

The prisoner of war comparison does not apply here. Prisoners of war are enemy soldiers captured on the battlefield. There is no ambiguity. In the "war" on terror, there is much more ambiguity, and the Bush administration recognizes this. That is why suspected terrorists are held as "illegal combatants" and not "prisoners of war."

The fact is, the vast majority of detainees may not be terrorists. Some, we capture in the act of fighting against us, and they clearly are, but most we capture through intelligence, and intelligence can be, and has been in the past, wrong. So statistics (and past experience) says that some of the current detainees are in fact entirely innocent.

And I find this disturbing. I don't know how you can live in the US or another country with the same commitment to human rights, and not find it disturbing. People are being held and subjected to extremely harsh treatment, whose only offense is that they are Muslim. And when people bring this up, you say that this is "US bashing," and dismiss it. I find this very disturbing.

[Tattila the Hun]

POW's aren't criminals by default. If POW were given "speedy trials", I'd be worried.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by PLATO
How many prisoners of war have been given "speedy trials" in the past?

Just curious if this is just part of the "Bash the US" campaign or if their was some change in the way prisoners of war are supposed to be treated.

Or...are you implying that this is not a war? That this is simple criminal investigations?

Not really clear here.

We're not at war anymore, genius -- remember in 2003 Bush declared "mission accomplished" on an aircraft carrier?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Winston
Boo-hoo.

I'd be more concerned about the suspected terrorists that aren't yet incarcerated.

I suspect you're a terrorist.

[Odin]

This whole "enemy comabtant" catagory is BS. If they are not POW's they are civilians according to the Geneva Conventions.

[Winston]

I think Winston is supporting terrorism, call the CIA.

I suspect you're a terrorist.

Sure, the 'innocent' ones you're all so concerned about are only behind bars due to frivolous accusations like that.

Tell you what, why don't you file for adoption/custody of the poor misunderstood lambs and plead with authorities to let you provide a nice home and future for them. It's worth a shot, there might even be some hidden benefits to it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Winston
Boo-hoo.

I'd be more concerned about the suspected terrorists that aren't yet incarcerated.

I'll remember it, when you'll complain that you have been arrested and brutalized by mistake.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Winston

I think Winston is supporting terrorism, call the CIA.

I suspect you're a terrorist.

Sure, the 'innocent' ones you're all so concerned about are only behind bars due to frivolous accusations like that.

Wasn't one of the accusations/causes of suspicion that the guy in question had a funny name?

Although the BBC are pretty crap at the news these days and probably misreported a snippet of the whole story.

[Donegeal]

Its called being pro-active instead of being re-active.

If your poractive, there are less terror attacks, but mistakes can be made.
If your reactive, then no mistaes are made but you have hundreds, or thousands of people dead; and usually no one to try, as they kill themselves in the process.

I, for one, prefer that the US government maintain its proactive stance to insure my saftey.