Liberal arts education

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
liberal arts is a really really crappy name.


I think the problem is many dont see them as useful, for most of the people who get degrees on that, the only option is too teach.

You dont open a newspaper and see, We need philosophers, 3000 $ a month

You do if you open the academic job papers.

[Seeker]

The reason is the industrialization of the university. BA degrees are now the equivalent of a HS diploma in 1920.

Our society has decided, for some stupid reason, that everyone who wants to seriously compete for a job must have a degree (unless they luck out and find an apprenticeship, but that's like a lottery).

Thus, you have thousands of people with very little interest in the life of the mind getting 'processed' so that they can get an increasingly valueless piece of paper. And as that piece of paper becomes uncompetitive, the herd travels up to the MA, and then doctorate level?? I hope not. The universities are totally complicit. More students equals more money and prestige. Did you know, for example, that in times past, an arts course had NO mandatory essay?

Just readings and a final. The reason is that they simply assumed that university students were spending their time independently writing about their fields, since those were the kind of students who made it.

The real base reason is that there is much more competition for good jobs than there used to be, partly due to an immigrant population willing to do work for less, and 'globalization'.

[Az]

Seeker is right 100%.

This has also a lot to do with Highschools becoming holding pens for the young while the parents are at work, instead of being proper educational establishments, IMO.

[Darius871]

See Plato's Republic, 487e-489b.

[Richelieu]

Asher is currently travelling but will return shortly. This thread will then be swiftly dealt with . We thank you for your patience.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Az
Seeker is right 100%.

This has also a lot to do with Highschools becoming holding pens for the young while the parents are at work, instead of being proper educational establishments, IMO.

[Japher]

I also agree with Seeker.

I also think a lot has to do with those who get the BAs and what they do with them. Both my sisters have BAs... my dad calls them MRS degrees.

I agree.

[Asher]

Re: Liberal arts education

Originally posted by Dracon II
The arts and humanities faculties in Universities get a lot of bad press from all sectors of society. They are charged with irrelevance, idleness, uselessness, or even downright perniciousness. To what extent is this because a) society's perceptions of the field have changed, and b) the content and structure of the liberal arts field has changed?
What are the beneficial aspects of such an education... or, where has it gone wrong?

[Asher]

Re: Re: Liberal arts education

Originally posted by Agathon
(a) Most people have a very limited understanding of what goes on and why it is done.

Exhibit A: Agathon

(b) More people now go to university and they pay more to do it. This has led to a general slippage in standards because there are many people at university who simply shouldn't be there.

See Exhibit A.

[Richelieu]

[KrazyHorse]

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Liberal arts education

Originally posted by Dracon II
The arts and humanities faculties in Universities get a lot of bad press from all sectors of society. They are charged with irrelevance, idleness, uselessness, or even downright perniciousness. To what extent is this because a) society's perceptions of the field have changed, and b) the content and structure of the liberal arts field has changed?
What are the beneficial aspects of such an education... or, where has it gone wrong?

It's because of c) liberal arts students using the Internet to get people to do their homework for them

[Dracon II]

Oh this is not homework... though I have done that before. It never works though

[Seeker]

On the 'liberal arts' thing...here at Western there is no 'Arts' department, instead there is an 'Arts/Social Science' department
which means that public admininstration, political science, sociology, economics, are all 'BAs'.

Perhaps a bad 'branding' decision?

Oddly, it is also possible to get a MSC here with very little math! Communications and Speech Pathology requires only a half course in statistics to enter, and only the equivalent of a full course in statistics whilst in the programme, and the Stats course is the one offered via the Psych department, not the math department (draw what conclusions u may).

So you can graduate with a 'Master of Science,.... Speech Pathology' with only 1.5 math credits but you can graduate economics and still just get a BA!

Wacky ain't it?

[Patroklos]

a) Most people have a very limited understanding of what goes on and why it is done. Many think that university is to train people for widget making. If you want people who can communicate well in prose, then a liberal arts education is how you get it. Ask me about that the next time I have to mark essays written by students from the sciences (whose sole ventures into prose seem to be lab reports). Other than that the job of people at university is to pursue knowledge for its own sake and to act as the critic and conscience of society.

(b) More people now go to university and they pay more to do it. This has led to a general slippage in standards because there are many people at university who simply shouldn't be there. Universities are not supposed to be job training centres. Many university students would do more for themselves and society if they attended polytechnic and got a trade (there is nothing wrong or ignoble about doing that). More students also have to work to put themselves through college, which means less time to do their coursework (and hardly any time to read the materials).

IMHO it would be a lot better if humanities departments dropped the anti-elitist guff and returned to being the hardass places they used to be. In some areas standards have not slipped at all (our Classics Department is a good example) and you will have to work your ass off to achieve anything decent. At my old university I would personally have liked to have failed about half the students. At U of T the students are in general much better, but too many of them are hampered by having to work outside of college.

But the current political and economic situation makes that unlikely.

Wow, that was....great. Especially the bold.