Good Article on Nuclear Power and Middle Eastern Oil

[RGBVideo]

Seeker: Wait, you're serious?

The uranium is mined from under the ground level, therefore it makes sense to return it, enriched, underground not above ground... right?

[Mr. Harley]

Actually something like the Marianas trench is a HUGE geologic feature, and since it's all going under the mantle, it's not like you're engaged in precision bombing.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Mr. Harley

Essentially the entire ecosystem of the river is f*cked. It increases diseases (lakes are essentially stagnant water) especially in the tropics, yields fewer fish, has less biodiversity, the list goes on. Environmentally I would prefer a modern coal fired plant - without the Mountaintop mining where the cut the top of the mountain off and dump it in the adjoining valley, uttlerly destroying forever the stream environments there - to a hydroelectric damn. If people would simply look at the facts - and require industry to build fail-safe plants which can be done (as per the previous poster mentioning pebble-bed reactors) - nuclear power is in the short term the best overall solution.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Dauphin
A naive answer as to what to do with waste is to put it back in the mine from whence it came. Its not like its going to be more radioactive after it's been used!

If only things were that simple.

1/3 of all light bulbs sold in the US have a tiny fraction of a former Soviet or American nuclear warhead in them. Part of the decomissioning of those weapons (due to treaty obligations) was to render the fissil material no longer useful for making nuclear bombs so the US and Russia signed a treaty to find out what to do with the stuff. The biggest use is in medical equipment (a great deal require radioactivity) but that market is mostly tapped out now so they've started to down process the material and mix it in with the common household light bulb.

Reusing & recycling are a great thing in general but they're absolutely key to having a safe and enviromentally friendly nuclear power plan.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Mr. Harley
Actually something like the Marianas trench is a HUGE geologic feature, and since it's all going under the mantle, it's not like you're engaged in precision bombing.

There have been ideas about how to do this for a long time and personally I think it is the cheapest way to go. Plow it into the muck at the bottom of the trench and realize it is all now on the fast track to the Earth's mantel where it won't hurt anyone or anything.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Oerdin


There have been ideas about how to do this for a long time and personally I think it is the cheapest way to go. Plow it into the muck at the bottom of the trench and realize it is all now on the fast track to the Earth's mantel where it won't hurt anyone or anything.

except aliens and/or monsters living down there.

[Chemical Ollie]

Ever drink a glass of wine or eat a bannana? OMFG radiation sickness!!!

Aarrgh! That explains the headache I get from Banana wine.

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by Mr. Harley

Windpower is rough on migratory birds. It turns out that over tens of thousands of years the birds have learned to follow favorable winds, etc. Which are oftent the best places for the turbines, which can kill hundreads of birds apiece.

Myths and lies.

Modern wind turbines kill almost no birds. One huge site in California, featuring 3600 old style turbines, (small, on short towers) kills about 1000 birds per year. That is still just one bird per 3 years per tower.

Studies on bird deaths due to wind turbines:

Massachusetts
Site...8 older turbines at Princeton Wind Farm, a forested site near the Watchusett Mountain State Forest and hawk watch.
Date...Surveys conducted in autumn and winter, 1993.
Findings...Zero bird fatalities recorded.
New York

Madison
Site... 7 modern turbines at farmland site in Central New York.
Date..One year of surveys conducted 2001-2002.
Findings...Four bird fatalities recorded.

Copenhagen
Site...2 modern turbines at farmland site 30 miles inland from Lake Ontario.
Date..Surveys conducted during spring and autumn migration seasons, 1994.
Findings...Zero bird fatalities recorded.

Pennsylvania
Site...8 modern turbines at farmland site in Somerset County, Southwestern Pa.
Date..One year of surveys 2000-2001.
Findings...Zero bird fatalities recorded.

Vermont
Site......11 modern turbines at forested site near Searsburg.
Date.......Surveys conducted in June through October, 1996.
Findings...Zero bird fatalities recorded.

Iowa
Site...3 modern turbines in farmland near Algona.
Date...Surveys conducted three seasons.
Findings...Zero bird fatalities recorded.

Kansas
Site...2 modern wind turbines in grassland prairie near St. Mary's.
Date...Surveys conducted in 3 migration seasons.
Findings...Zero bird fatalities recorded.

Minnesota
Site...200+ turbine site at Buffalo Ridge, a farmland area near Lake Benton.
Date...Surveys conducted 1997-2002.
Findings...53 bird fatalities recorded. One raptor. No endangered or threatened species.

Wisconsin
Site...31 modern turbines located on farmland on the Door County peninsula.
Date...1999-2000
Findings...21 bird fatalities recorded, mostly song birds.

California
Altamont
Site...5,400 turbine site (mostly older) on grassland.
Date...Surveys conducted 1989-2002. Several studies, some ongoing.
Findings...Significant raptor mortality recorded. About 1000 per year. (Exceptionally high raptor and prey density.) Small numbers of some other species involved.

Montezuma Hills
Site...237 older and 11 modern turbines in farmland near Sacramento River.
Date...2+ years of surveys.
Findings...10 raptor, 2 songbird, 1 duck fatality recorded

San Gorgonio Pass
Site...2,700 modern and older turbines at desert site in Palm Springs area.
Findings...Recent studies indicate very few bird fatalities.

Tehachapi Pass
Site...3,700 modern and older turbines in study at rangeland/arid grassland site.
Findings...Recent surveys indicate low (perhaps moderate) level of avian mortality. Small numbers raptor fatalities recorded.

Colorado
Site...29 turbine site (modern) on cattle and bison rangeland at Ponnequin. (15 turbines added in 2001.)
Date...Surveys conducted 1998-2002.
Findings...16 bird fatalities recorded. (One raptor.) No endangered/threatened species.

Oregon
Site...38 modern turbines on wheat and grazing lands at Vansycle, Umatilla County.
Date...Surveys conducted 1999.
Findings...8 song bird and 4 game bird fatalities recorded. Zero raptors or endangered/threatened species.

Wyoming
Site...105 modern turbines on rangeland near Arlington, Wyoming.
Date...Surveys conducted 1998 through 2000.
Findings...75 bird fatalities recorded. Mostly songbird migrants, 3 raptors.

CANADA
Le Nordais, Quebec
Site...133 modern turbines at forested site on the Gaspe.
Date...Surveys of 26 turbines conducted over two migration seasons.
Findings...Zero bird fatalities recorded.

REAL THREATS TO BIRDS

Glass Windows
Bird Deaths a year: 100 to 900+ million

Dr. Daniel Klem of Muhlenberg College has done studies over a period of 20 years, looking at bird collisions with windows. His conclusion: glass kills more birds than any other human related factor.

House Cats
Bird Deaths a year: 100 Million
The National Audubuon Society says 100 million birds a year fall prey to cats. Dr. Stan Temple of the University of Wisconsin estimates that in Wisconsin alone, about 7 million birds a year are killed by cats

Automobiles / Trucks
Bird Deaths a year: 50 to 100 Million
Scientists estimate the number of birds killed by cars and trucks on the nation's highways to be 50 to 100 million a year. Those statistics were cited in reports published by the National Institute for Urban Wildlife and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Electric Transmission Line Collisions
Bird Deaths a year: up to 174 million
Estimates made by the U.S. Fish and Wildife Service demonstrate millions of birds die each year as a result of colliding with transmission lines.

Agriculture
Bird Deaths a year: 67 million
Pesticides likely poison an estimated 67 million birds per year according to the Smithsonian Institution. Cutting hay may kill up to a million more birds a year.

Land Development
Bird Deaths a year: unknown
Suburban sprawl is a silent but deadly killer. The National Audubon Society says loss of bird habitat is the greatest threat to bird populations.

Communication Towers
Bird Deaths a year: 4 to 10 million
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates that bird collisions with tall, lighted communications towers, and their guy wires result in 4 to 10 million bird deaths a year.

Oil and Gas Extraction
Bird Deaths a year: 1 to 2 million
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reports that up to 2 million birds died landing in oil pits to bathe and drink in 1997. Fish and Wildlife says netting has improved that situation somewhat. There are no overall estimates for the number of birds affected by oil and gas spills, and oil and gas extractions (and transport.)

Hunting
Bird Deaths a year: 100 + million
According to the U.S. Fish and Wildife Service, more than 100 million ducks, geese, swans, doves, shorebirds, rails, cranes, among others are harvested legally each year.

[The Mad Viking]

And I have absolutely NO idea what our one poster was smoking, but hydropower from an environmental standpoint is utterly devastating.

Essentially the entire ecosystem of the river is f*cked. It increases diseases (lakes are essentially stagnant water) especially in the tropics, yields fewer fish, has less biodiversity, the list goes on. Environmentally I would prefer a modern coal fired plant - without the Mountaintop mining where the cut the top of the mountain off and dump it in the adjoining valley, uttlerly destroying forever the stream environments there - to a hydroelectric damn. If people would simply look at the facts - and require industry to build fail-safe plants which can be done (as per the previous poster mentioning pebble-bed reactors) - nuclear power is in the short term the best overall solution.

Myths and lies, part 2.

Hydropower, if poorly implemented, has the potential to alter ecosystems, and some of the changes may be harmful.

Hydropower, if properly implemented, can mitigate the majority of adverse impacts and create significant environmental benefits.

Your suggestion that lakes are essentially stagnant water that create disease are laughable. In fact, lakes tend to increase biodiversity and concentration of life forms.

Fish passage routes are constructed on modern plants (in the US since about 1987) to permit fish migration past the damn site. This is not the same as leaving the river unaltered, and some reduction in migratory fish numbers can be expected. But success rates of 90% to 95% are common.

Water resource engineering and flow controls and monitoring can address water quantity and quality issues. Some changes in temperature and dissolved gases will still occur, but the adverse impacts need not be significant.

Beneficial by-products (positive impacts) include significantly improved flood control, and as mentioned, creation of wetlands that provide habitat for fish and birds.

Anecdotally, have you ever lived near a stream when beavers have built a damn and created a pond. The life virtually ERUPTS around the pond. This occurred near our home a few years ago, and the first thing we noticed was a huge growth in the marine amphibian population. The frogs were so numerous you could hear them from several hundred yards away. The frogs, of course, were feasting on the growth in insect life. Ducks and geese nested and raised young, and great blue herons frequented the area.

Nuclear plants create thermal pollution. They also release boiler system water with high concentrations of copper and nickel as well as chemicals used to prevent biological growth, mineralization and corrosion. Finally, accidental releases of radioactive heavy water (containing deuterium and tritium) occur frequently.