Article By Joe Lieberman

[John-SJ]

Joe Lieberman, after his recent return from his fourth visit to Iraq over the past 17 months has written a very insightful article concerning our progress in Iraq and the need to finish the mission rather than "ceasing defeat from the jaws of victory" by cutting and running as some would have us do. The article is here .

Comments?

[Arrian]

Haven't read it yet, but I can say that I'm not surprised if your summary (don't cut and run, etc) is the thrust of his article. I happen to agree, although unlike Loverman I was against the war in the first place. My senator is a bit of a militant.

-Arrian

[alva]

from the jaws of victory"

hmmm, Arrian, except this little bit then.

[Arrian]

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Arrian
Haven't read it yet, but I can say that I'm not surprised if your summary (don't cut and run, etc) is the thrust of his article. I happen to agree, although unlike Loverman I was against the war in the first place. My senator is a bit of a militant.

-Arrian

In this Arrian we are in lock step agreement including stances on the war inthe first place. The only dif is I actually like Lieberman because he seems like McCain on the other side of the fence to have his own set of chops that allow him to think outside of party lines every so often.

[alva]

Originally posted by Arrian

victory is not in sight.

[John-SJ]

Alva,
Stating that victory is not in sight doesn't really say much. Perhaps you could read the article, which goes to great length to show just where we are in the progression of this war, and post specific disagreements. In other words, where Lieberman shows evidence of progress, can you show contrary evidence that we are not where he says we are?

Because, if you accept his assessment, or even grant that the majority of his assessment is fairly accurate, then victory is indeed within reach.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

In this Arrian we are in lock step agreement including stances on the war inthe first place. The only dif is I actually like Lieberman because he seems like McCain on the other side of the fence to have his own set of chops that allow him to think outside of party lines every so often.

I'm not particularly anti-Lieberman. He's just a little more hawkish that I am. So is McCain, who I like quite a bit. Lieberman came and spoke at my HS once, and I for one thought he spoke well. All in all, I'd say I'm largely neutral on Joe.

Anyway, I should probably actually read the article, eh?

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by John-SJ
Alva,
Stating that victory is not in sight doesn't really say much. Perhaps you could read the article, which goes to great length to show just where we are in the progression of this war, and post specific disagreements. In other words, where Lieberman shows evidence of progress, can you show contrary evidence that we are not where he says we are?

Because, if you accept his assessment, or even grant that the majority of his assessment is fairly accurate, then victory is indeed within reach.

It really depends on what "victory" means. The definition is the key. Set the goalposts low enough, and sure, victory is nigh! Set 'em higher and things are a lot less rosy.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Reading the article now. First thing I note: the link is to Hannity.com. Ugh.

Next, he focuses on the Sunnis joining the political process. This is indeed good, although I'm not sure they've really embraced it just yet.

Here is an ironic finding I brought back from Iraq. While U.S. public opinion polls show serious declines in support for the war and increasing pessimism about how it will end, polls conducted by Iraqis for Iraqi universities show increasing optimism. Two-thirds say they are better off than they were under Saddam, and a resounding 82% are confident their lives in Iraq will be better a year from now than they are today. What a colossal mistake it would be for America's bipartisan political leadership to choose this moment in history to lose its will and, in the famous phrase, to seize defeat from the jaws of the coming victory.

Interesting. Assuming he's chosen good poll data for Iraqi opinions on the matter, I'd say this is due to political lag time. It took a year or two for most Americans to wake up and get pissed.

The economic reconstruction of Iraq has gone slower than it should have, and too much money has been wasted or stolen. Ambassador Khalilzad is now implementing reform that has worked in Afghanistan--Provincial Reconstruction Teams, composed of American economic and political experts, working in partnership in each of Iraq's 18 provinces with its elected leadership, civil service and the private sector. That is the "build" part of the "clear, hold and build" strategy, and so is the work American and international teams are doing to professionalize national and provincial governmental agencies in Iraq.

This gives me some hope that we (our side, this includes our government and the Iraqi one) have figured out some of the mistakes and may be on the way to mending the damage done. Better late than never.

If all goes well, I believe we can have a much smaller American military presence there by the end of 2006 or in 2007, but it is also likely that our presence will need to be significant in Iraq or nearby for years to come.

Yep. Even if we've now reversed many of the earlier mistakes and things are improving, there is a long way to go.

-Arrian