Mexico and Argentina are going diplomacy apesh*t, really overreacting

[Barnabas]

First during the summir of the americas, Mexico leaded the pro free trade deal with the USA group, but Mercosur countries (Brazil,Argentina,Uruguay,Paraguay) + Venezuela were against the deal because of the farm subsidies.

Fox tried to arrange a meeting with Kirchner (president of Argentina), but Kirchner did not feel like meeting Fox, so it did not happen.

The summit ended with no deal, pro ALCA countries said, we favour free trade with the USA and the others said, we dont yet.

So Fox returns to Mexico and says that Kirchner was a bad host, that all his speeches were directed to make himself look good to the argentines and not to try to get a deal.

Then, Kirchner says : Fox should go and take care of Mexicans, I was voted by argentines and I will defend them as I see fit.
And then he said, some people think good diplomacy is having an attitude of prostration to the powerful countries, (refering to Mexico´s relation to the USA).

And now Mexico (the foreign issues minister) says, the summit was a great success

those who have to worry are the little tiny (chiquituelos) countries who were left out of the free trade zone with the USA and dont recognize what the continent wants.

And that USA Canada and Mexico are the three TITANS of the continent??

wtf ?


And they also mentioned that the economy of Brazil Argentina Uruguay Paraguay and Venezuela are only 10% of the economy of the americas, and that Mexico has an economy 3 times the size of Argentinas economy, in a rather pejorative way.

Kirchner is hot headed, I wonder what will he say now.

[Ted Striker]

.

[VetLegion]

Well they can't even make Mercosur work, so I don't hold my breath that they will be making strides in free trade direction soon.

Chile

[Barnabas]

well, if bush decided to lower the subsidies, they would join the free trade zone, otherwise, it is not real free trade.

[VetLegion]

They don't have subsidies, so why don't they make their own free trade zone, Mercosur, work?

[Barnabas]

By the way , now the presidents played down he incident and said everything is OK between Argentina and Mexico.

[Barnabas]

Americans farmers do have subsidies, what do you mean?

They always say, we will get rid of subsidies only after europe gets rid of them too.

[Dinner]

The botom line is the anti free trade people aren't helping most people in their country. As low wage countries with limited capital (Remember how capital flight & lack of capital caused economic collapse just a short time ago?) they have a lot to gain from increased trade. True, farm subsidies would hurt them but there is no way the US is going to drop them a second time without an ironclad deal from the EU and Japan to reduce them so it is just pissing in the wind to hold things up.

[Barnabas]

they dont complain just because it is a good excuse for not signing the deal, they complain because it would really hurt those countries.

Dont forget that most latin american countries favour alca, it is only those who are great exporters of agricultural products (Argentina,Brazil,Uruguay, and Paraguay who lives of contraband between Brazil and Argentina) who are against it.

Chile, exports copper, wine and wood, they couldnt care less for USA farm subsidies, the same for most other latin american countries, who export minerals, oil, or depend on cheap factory labor for exports, for them the deal is good, it makes them even cheaper.

But Brazil and Argentina are basically third world versions on steroids of Australia and New Zeland, they have different economies, big agricultural exports, it would quite screw them.

Only Venezuela is against free trade zone for ideological reasons, because chavez is mad commie, the mercosur countries are against it just for economic reasons.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
well, if bush decided to lower the subsidies, they would join the free trade zone, otherwise, it is not real free trade.

People fancy cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Agriculture is a major industry in Canada, all parts of it, and we do not subsidise the way the US and Euros do.

Still, we trade and prosper.

If we turned our backs on continenetal trade, it would not hasten the end of US-EU ag subsidies by a second, but we would lose out on other opportunities.

[VetLegion]

Brachy, I admit I am not most familiar with the region, but everything I have read about MERCOSUR, which is a free trade union of South American countries (who, you say, don't have agri subsidies) has led me to believe that it doesn't work, and is only existing on paper.

So my question was: if US subsidies are the only problem, than why don't South American countries of MERCOSUR make that organization work, since there are no subsidies involved there?

[Dinner]

Mercosur did work in that it increased trade among member states but the problem was/is that the economies for the member states are to small. They need to be ankored to the larger North American economies. Even Mexico has a larger economy then any of the South American states much less The US or Canada. NAFTA and CAFTA already give the three North America states big advantages over the southern states and all they're doing now is isolating themselves. It's not like 1st world farm subsidies aren't already effecting world agricultural prices and even in Brazil farm out put is less then 20% of the economy. The other 80% of the economy will suffer because that 20% feels like being obstructionists.

The big losers here are the Mercosur citizens.

[GePap]

the Brazilian economy is "small"? 14th in the world ain't bad.

[JohnT]

If the Southern countries want free trade, they should create their own free trade zone and invite the US in later. That way they can try it w/o fears of being swallowed.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by GePap
the Brazilian economy is "small"? 14th in the world ain't bad.

Mercosur's over all economy is small by global standards.