Here's To Lord Nelson, slayer of frogs

[Odin]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Well, it's not only about Joan.

1) The Burgundians eventually rallied France. The Rosbifs, being deprived of their dear traitors, were considerably weakened. (As an aside, the Rosbifs believe they have been betrayed by the Burgundians )

2) Joan was far from being the only competent leader during the war. And she wasn't even the one who used the most modern tactics. However, she managed to motivate the French king, and led him to understand that the war wasn't lost. Also notice she died in 1431, 22 years before the last Rosbif debacle.

The Burgundians don't explain the debacle at Agincourt and elsewhere.

The Black Prince:

[Dr Strangelove]

Getting back to Tralfagar: the French did not have 70 ships of the line in 1805. nor did the Spanish have 35 ships of the line. The loss of the combined fleet was a major blow to their naval fighting power. England OTOH had more tha 120 battleships at the time. Had Nelson lost England still would have had sufficient naval power to repel the French, but gathering the force to the south east coast of England would have meant pulling fleets away from other vital areas.

Even without the victory at Tralfagar the mobilization of the Austrians would have ended Napoleon's preparations to invade England. Later that year a storm destroyed a significant portion of the troop barges assembled at Boulogne permanently ending the plans for invasion.

[Thorgal]

Getting back to Tralfagar: the French did not have 70 ships of the line in 1805. nor did the Spanish have 35 ships of the line. The loss of the combined fleet was a major blow to their naval fighting power.

Some source for your afirmations?
In fact they had, i cant post my primary source since it is from a spanish book but it is easy to do some quick google search .

the Spanish fleet had been dealt a mortal blow from which it never really recovered, losing over a quarter of its effective battleships (eight out of thirty) and, perhaps more important, suffering serious casualties among its high command. The French, however, had lost a smaller proportion of their effective fleet (thirteen out of seventy) and these were later replaced in an extensive building programme.

http://www.seabritain2005.com/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.371

So...

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Dauphin


Winter snows were and are not common in England. When they do happen they seldom last more than a couple of weeks.

That isn't true of Anglo-Saxon times, or medieval times. In winter, the combinations of rain, mud, and snow would have made fast long-distance army movements just about impossible.

[Dauphin]

Rain and mud sure, but how often would it snow for extended periods at a time? Also medieval England was colder due to the little Ice Age, but the 11th-14th century was apparently a pretty warm period compared to what came before and after.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Thorgal

Some source for your afirmations?
In fact they had, i cant post my primary source since it is from a spanish book but it is easy to do some quick google search .

http://www.seabritain2005.com/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.371

So...

Your source may have been counting frigates and smaller ratings, it may have included non-serviceable ships, or it may have referred to statistics about the fleets gathered years before Trafalgar. See: http://www.napoleonguide.com/navy_balance.htm

According to this source the French navy had 34 ships of line remaining in 1807, the combined Franco-Spanish fleet was had only 45 ships. It would stand to reason that the french fleet prior to Tralfagar would have a total of fewer than 40 ships of the line, while the Sapnish fleet would have numbered less than 20.

[Heresson]

Why people can never spell my name correctly? It's Heresson. Here as "here am I", ss like SS, and on like "on the air"
And it actually is French. But there was a mistake in my vocabulary. If I asked my mom instead, You'd know me as Herisson I believe.

[Colon™]

Don't complain too much about it. Why? Ask Thesbe.

[Thorgal]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Your source may have been counting frigates and smaller ratings, it may have included non-serviceable ships, or it may have referred to statistics about the fleets gathered years before Trafalgar. See: http://www.napoleonguide.com/navy_balance.htm

According to this source the French navy had 34 ships of line remaining in 1807, the combined Franco-Spanish fleet was had only 45 ships. It would stand to reason that the french fleet prior to Tralfagar would have a total of fewer than 40 ships of the line, while the Sapnish fleet would have numbered less than 20.

Nope. Here you have the total SHIPS OF LINE in service in the spanish navy in 1805 just before Trafalgar with number of canyons and lifetime:

Ángel de la Guarda - 74 (1773-1810)
América - 64 (1766-1823)
África -74 (1752-1809)
Argonauta - 80 (1796-1805) **
Asia - 74 (1791-1825)
Astuto - 64 (1759-1810)
Atlante - 74 (1754-1817)
Bahama - 74 (1788-1805) **
Castilla 64 (1780-1810)
Conde de Regla - 112 (1787-1811)
España - 64 (1757-1807)
Glorioso 74 - (1755-1815)
Guerrero - 74 (1759-1850) 92 years
Mejicano - 112 (1786-1815)
Miño - 54 (1779-1814)
Monarca - 74 (1794-1805) **
Montañés - 74 (1794- 1822) *
Neptuno - 80 (1795-1805) **
Princesa - 74 (1750-1809)
Príncipe de Asturias - 118 (1794-1814) *
Purísima Concepción - 112 (1779-1810)
Rayo - 100 (1748-1805) **
Rápido - 74 - (1779-1815)
Reina Maria Luisa - 112 (1791-1816)
Rubi - 74 1782 (1782-1823)
San Agustín - 74 (1866-1805) **
San Carlos - 112 (1765-1819)
San Fermín - 74 (1782-1808)
San Francisco de Asís - 74 (1767-1805) **
San Francisco de Paula - 74 (1788-1823)
San Fulgencio - 64 (1787-1814)
San Ildefonso - 74 (1784-1805) **
San Juan Bautista - 74 (1772-1809)
San Juan Nepomuceno - 74 (1766-1805) **
San Julián - 64 (1781-1830)
San Justo - 74 (1779-1828) *
San Leandro - 64 (1790-1813) *
San Lorenzo - 74 (1768-1810)
San Pedro de Alcántara - 64 (1788-1815)
San Ramón - 64 (1775-1810)
San Telmo - 74 (1788-1822)
Santa Ana - 112 (1784-1816) *
Santísima Trinidad - 140 (1769-1805) **
Soberano - 74 - (1771-1854)
Terrible - 74 - (1754-1811)

* fought in Trafalgar and survived, ** was destroyed in Trafalgar, captured or sunk in the storm after the fight.

46 ships of line in total. However it is true that some were in America equiped for other duties or under heavy reparations, that is becuse the 35 figure. I have not the same information for the French navy but your source could not be very accurate in that matter either.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Yes and no. Vikings were going to sack Paris so the King of France agreed to give them Normandy in exchange for not attacking any more French lands.

By 1066, the Normans of Normandy were pretty thoroughly frenchified.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Colon
Don't complain too much about it. Why? Ask Thesbe.

Indeed, that can only but guarantee they'll spell your name wrong, Hershson.

[Dr Strangelove]

Quite a few French and Spanish ships were "unserviceable" due to having sat for long periods of time idle in harbor. I note that 12 of the ships on the list went out of service between Trafalgar and 1812, yet I know of no other action between Spanish ships and the allies during that time period. Might those ships have been in such a state of ill repair that they didn't count?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

By 1066, the Normans of Normandy were pretty thoroughly frenchified.

Though still not French. For example, they never learned the traditional Gallic greeting to visitors (the waving of a white flag).

[Thorgal]

There were some ships under reparation of course but in general they were all in good shape in that years, however in next years Spain went under a deep crisis becuase the war with France and or was unable to maintain them, or were lost in the war in several stupid incidents. For instance the Purisma Concepcion or the San Lorenzo were in the port of Cádiz (not occupied for Napoleon´s army) but a strong storm broke the mooring cables and the ships ended in the beach at the other side of the Cadiz bay, in french ocuppied territory, and the "gabachos" burned them.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp

Though still not French. For example, they never learned the traditional Gallic greeting to visitors (the waving of a white flag).