I rule completely

[DinoDoc]

Then how does not wanting to be poor stop you from doing something "useful?"

[chequita guevara]

Because there aren't many useful jobs that lift you from poverty.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
a) if they were ethnicly cleansing you first, I think it would be rational to try and drive your attackers out.

Quite a nice excuse - just claim that the "opponents" are making ethnical cleansing against you, and you have a full legit reason to do the same - I thought higer about you, Che.

[chequita guevara]

With that logic, self-defense shouldn't be a claim for justifiable homocide.

BTW, I don't consider defensible and legit the same thing. I might be able to defend something as necessary in a particular context, but think it was illegitimate or morally repugnent. Futhermore, I don't think someone ethnicly cleaning you necessarily means you have an affirmative defense.

For example, during the Rwandan genocide, I think it would have been perfectly defensilbe for the Tutsis to drive the Hutus from their country, had they been able. After the genocide had been stopped, that's no longer the case. And refugees should be allowed to return after the ceasing of hostilities, although the genocidaires will likely not wish to return, since they should be tried and punished.

[BlackCat]

Have I ever claimed that ?

[chequita guevara]

No, you haven't. If you think no killing is ever justified, then my hat is off to you. I can respect that position.

[Az]

It's a silly position. I cannot believe you can respect that.

[chequita guevara]

I don't agree with it, but I can respect the notion that the taking of any human life is wrong, no matter the circumstances. I have a real problem with the idea of killing, even in self-defense. I'd do it, but I'd be messed up about it afterwards. Even if I could rationalize it as necessary, I'd always think about sending someone to nothingness. Death is forever. Someday I hope we build a world where there is no killing.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Quite a nice excuse - just claim that the "opponents" are making ethnical cleansing against you, and you have a full legit reason to do the same - I thought higer about you, Che.

Silly. The correct thing to have asked would have been how exactly that applies to the ethnic cleansing in question here. If you were feeling really ambitious you might also point out that Stalin wasn't an aberation of the ideals of Lenin (as che likes to claim) but merely a continuation of the totalitarian system of repression he had set up in his rise to power.

[Az]

but I can respect the notion that the taking of any human life is wrong, no matter the circumstances.

taking of any human life is wrong, ON IT'S OWN. The question is "whether it is justified". There is an enormous amount of incidents, in which the taking of a human life can be completely justified - because it prevents other people from getting killed, for example. Taking this incident of "wrong or right" and blowing it into this huge moral maxim is really really silly.

'Taking something from somebody without their approval' is wrong. On it's own. But you're not some sort of insane libbie now, are you?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
No, you haven't. If you think no killing is ever justified, then my hat is off to you. I can respect that position.

Twisting.

Killing, that is in combat, can absolutely be justified, but as few as possible.

Killing noncombattants isn't neither justifiable nor legit.

Your Rawandan example neither hold. One thing is to fight military or like down, but sending people out on the refugee path just because you are defending yourself isn't in any way legit or justifiable.

[Az]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Silly. The correct thing to have asked would have been how exactly that applies to the ethnic cleansing in question here. If you were feeling really ambitious you might also point out that Stalin wasn't an aberation of the ideals of Lenin (as che likes to claim) but merely a continuation of the totalitarian system of repression he had set up in his rise to power.

Pre-cooked Microwaveable TV arguments: just wait for 2 minutes and get ready to be bored.

[Az]

Killing noncombattants isn't neither justifiable nor legit.

What if they're killed by accident? How much does it matter?

[OzzyKP]

Uh guys?

What happened to Kuci? Is he a commie or not? Is he just toying with everyone? I'm confused.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Az
Pre-cooked Microwaveable TV arguments: just wait for 2 minutes and get ready to be bored.

Well you really aren't the one that spent several posts defending Lenin (The Trot barb is just something I like to throw at che from time to time), now are you? But if you'd like to defend the "De-Cossackization" program or any of Trotsky's arguements in defense of State terror to put down dissent instead of pretending the smilie counts as such go ahead.