Battling Google, Microsoft Changes How It Builds Software

[Asher]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Windows XP is quite a let down.

I'm referring to Windows Vista...

You are the one who doesn't understand what monolithic means. "Monolithic" originated in Computer Science to refer to a way of programming. Check it out.

You used the word in reference to one of my supposed assertions that "Windows is not monolithic". I've only ever used the term monolithic to describe a kernel architecture.

In any case it's not true. Windows is not shipped as a single executable, nor is its kernel monolithic. You're wrong on both counts, despite your weaselling.

There isn't a "hybrid" kernel. Either it is microkernel or it is not. A "hybrid kernel" is just a pseudo-intellectual cop-out.

No, it exists -- it's just something that's rather new formally, probably wasn't around when you were in school. Windows NT still uses components and message passing in some areas of the kernel (Microkernel), while others have been integrated into the kernel for performance reasons (video, for instance).

I reckon you should read up on modern operating systems.

"Modern Operating Systems" by Andy Tanenbaum (2nd edition) is a good start, as is "Operating Systems Concepts" by Silberschatz.

Even I know Linux is the kernel and you don't. What does it say about your lack of knowledge in this area?

Err, what does it say about your reading comprehension skills?

Read the text on your screen...from the quote you replied to:

The 2.4 (or 2.6) kernel of Linux was way behind schedule, 2 years sounds about right. And that's just a simple little kernel, not a full OS.

The inability to read certainly explains your revisionist history of China and computers, and your complete lack of general computing knowledge...

[Agathon]

It's fun to see Microsoft slowly sliding down the toilet. And even more fun to see Asher trying to avoid the obvious.

[VetLegion]

It's far from obvious. Online applications are "around the corner" for almost a decade now, and yet the only one I use, GMail, I use over a POP3 so it downloads mail to my client without me touching the browser.

Riiight, "around the corner" my ass.

[Darkstar]

Originally posted by MarkG
show me 1 example where a company delayed a new version of it's software for 2 years and didnt loose market share

Just off the top of my head--- Oracle.

Actually, if you check the Big Boys (the guys that are major vendors to gov'mint), you can find a lot of examples. Indeed, they often slide back their schedules to better match the speed of gov'mint.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by VetLegion
It's far from obvious. Online applications are "around the corner" for almost a decade now, and yet the only one I use, GMail, I use over a POP3 so it downloads mail to my client without me touching the browser.

Riiight, "around the corner" my ass.

This isn't Linux for the desktop.

And by the way online apps have been growing all the time.

[VetLegion]

Give me examples - which ones do you use?

[Darkstar]

I doubt it. Most likely, it was an internal issue. OS got too big to be manageable and would cost a lot to mantain in patches. So they adopt a more streamlined design and more stringent rules about code. This way they increase profits a lot, which is always good.

Well, it's both and internal and external sources. There's been a lot of info leaking out of MS on this matter.

In software design, we call what MS did--- refactoring. It's a common technique, been in practice for years. MS itself used to refactor a lot before it grew so big and bureaucratic. It knows the dangers of being like that in the fluid thing that is the digital ecosystem.

Google does have MS rather scared, as its the Netscape scenario coming to life. MS has been responding to that. But then, Google has a lot of the industry scared. The future is going to get a lot more interesting, as old enemies are starting to cooperate against Google.

And Google, apparently, has recently gone insane. They recently put forward that all data everywhere, throughout all of time, belongs to them and solely to them. And that they have just been loaning it to everyone else. The world is just lucky Google isn't breaking out its patents on bits, electricty, and data in all its forms and making us pay for our very thoughts, as it owns those as well. (Check out their lawsuits defending their ripping copyright works, and sticking those illegally copied works up on their Library project without bothering to even think about getting permission from the owners/copyright holders.)

[Ted Striker]

Pretty much everything I do is online.

Work, banking, bills, taxes, DMV, class, everything.

The only check I write anymore is for the rent and that's it.

What are you looking for that doesn't yet currently exist?

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Darkstar
And Google, apparently, has recently gone insane. They recently put forward that all data everywhere, throughout all of time, belongs to them and solely to them. And that they have just been loaning it to everyone else. The world is just lucky Google isn't breaking out its patents on bits, electricty, and data in all its forms and making us pay for our very thoughts, as it owns those as well. (Check out their lawsuits defending their ripping copyright works, and sticking those illegally copied works up on their Library project without bothering to even think about getting permission from the owners/copyright holders.)

Yep, I read about it in the America's finest news source:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40076/print/

[Darkstar]

Originally posted by Wraith

Still, I find it fairly amusing that Microsoft has been using essentially the same coding method they've long derided in the open source sphere.

Why? Software methodogy is always in flux. MS copies what the development market strengths just like any other company. Open Source itself is done by the same people doing the corporate work. Whether they are the ones that make the decision on what their company's IT practices are, or merely the guys in the trenches whining that their company needs to update to the current proven development methodologies.

Remember, the technologies affect how well methodologies work.

Besides, MS doesn't have anything against Open Source, other then OS rips off from all commercial developers. That's its actual nature in the business world... pirated IP. Even Linus admits that.

--"Not really. Writing an OS is not all that common."

Including this time, I suspect. They're probably rewriting the worse-off core components, but I'd be highly surprised if they've managed to do a complete rewrite.

What? Only Apple is allowed to rebuild every bit from the core outward? Please. It happens across all vendors. There's just a point reached where you have to toss it all out, and start again. MS has done that 4 times already. Why wouldn't they do it again? Unless Billy Boy's pride stopped them maybe? That's why Ballmer got put in as the CEO wasn't it? Or have I just bought into the anti-MS proproganda too much?

--"There is not one magical development principal or one magical development method or one magical development technique that is better than the other. "

Wraith's right. Define what your priorities are, and you can find methodologies that are best suited for that.

But, MS has been wanting to go to this model since pre-AOL days. So it's not anything actually new. Indeed, if MS hadn't spent so long and so many resources in court over anti-trust (and the fall out of that), it would have already shifted to this model. This was one of the things that got shoved way to the back. Well, if you can believe what they had been saying back then, anyways.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
What are you looking for that doesn't yet currently exist?

A dumb terminal that is as good as desktop. They have been predicting this for ages too but it doesn't look like happening soon.

[Darkstar]

Ted, thin clienting certainly has a place. It always had. But I don't think it's going to be the desktop slayer that Sun and Oracle dreamed of.

Google is doing better then Sun and Oracle for the simple reason that people are already going to Google. It's trying to further encourage that behavior. Control the portal, and you effectively control their Internet. Nothing new in that thought, and it is correct, as demonstrated by AOL back at its peak subscribers.

MS itself favors thin clients. Thin clients connected to its Back Office, of course. The problem is the home and small business/office consumer.

To address that, you need utility computing. You know, where you subscribe to a basic computing account service with SUN or MS or Google, and they provide your business with its computing needs.

I don't see this actually helping SUN. If Sun gives up its Solaris, then why would people buy it? You can get cheaper, more powerful machines (hardware) that run Linux well from other vendors. So, what would SUN have to offer? Support in a product or OS that they don't know as well as other support vendors, which also charge less?

SUN is dead. It's brain knows it. They are trying to get rid of its poison pill so it can get bought out by whoever wants its brand before it becomes completely worthless. That's the business intel right now.

[Darkstar]

VetLegion,

online apps? They have been growing. For example... Amazon.

Seriously, web applications have long been the rage. Many large companies and government agencies (such as NASA) favors them because it means they can run the online app from smart phones, pagers, PDAs, Macs, PCs, and the 5000 flavors of *NIX boxes that are invariably around.

I can give you plenty of examples that NASA, CSC, SAIC, and the CIA utilize. But you are probably familar with many yourself. Just consider SAP, and how many places its products are being used, and by whom. Now tag in all the other online apps being utilzed around the business world.

They aren't around the corner. They've been with us for quite a while now. They just tend to suck so badly from a user's point of view, that your mind is blocking out your experience with them.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Darkstar
online apps? They have been growing. For example... Amazon.

or Apolyton

[Darkstar]

VetLegion... !

Seriously, Google is recently been claiming that it has a manifest destiny to all data, and is the sole repository for all data in its recent court filings in regards to its defense against the various lawsuits that have been filed against its Library project. That's its defense... very lightly paraphrased: "We are Google. We are entitled to copy all data, and manipulate it for searching as we choose. This cannot be invalidate by any law anywhere as all data belongs to the holder of the data, and merely copying data does not cause a loss of the original owners the loss of that data. Incidentally, if anyone uses copies/our data without our permission, we will sue you for it as we own it!"

I've been primarily using News.com to track the various cases and Google's more interesting statements in court. Google isn't the little innocent company that it used to be. It's starting to develop a "Big Boy" attitude, and has certainly been employing their tactics for a few years now.