American exceptionalism and socialism.

[Darkstar]

Originally posted by mrmitchell We should take all the "government can't do anything" people, put them on an island, ban government, and see what happens...

You mean, like what happened in New Orleans? What generally happens is that people band together for mutual benefits and protection, and form their own local authority.

[mrmitchell]

You mean, like what happened in New Orleans? What generally happens is that people band together for mutual benefits and protection, and form their own local authority.

Oh, you mean like an island government?

BTW New Orleans is not an example I would use for anything right now...

[MrFun]

Originally posted by DanS


The US poverty rate is 12%, between that of France (6%) and the UK (18%).

From the DanS News Network, right?

[Sava]

about government not working...


the problem is, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy...

we put dumbass conservatives in office who believe in this garbage... who actively SABOTAGE government... making it not work...

then all their moron followers say, "LOOK GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WORK"

[Dracon II]

Young Dracon's powers are growing.

He is TEH CHOSEN ONE

[mrmitchell]

about government not working...


the problem is, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy...

we put dumbass conservatives in office who believe in this garbage... who actively SABOTAGE government... making it not work...

then all their moron followers say, "LOOK GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WORK"

P J O'Rourke said it best

something like

"Democrats say government can make you healther and stronger, and it can make the grass on your lawn greener. Republicans say government can't do anything, and then they get elected and prove it."

The best one-sentence summary of politics that I have ever seen...

[Odin]

Originally posted by Darkstar


That's precisely it.
We know how badly our government runs anything. If it ran the healthcare of most of the citizenry, all but the poorest of Americans would leave the country for healthcare outside of America.

There may be a few governments in the world that can do something better then half-assed, but that isn't true in American politics. At best, if the American government does it, it will be half-assed. As our current helath system is now, it's better then that, even for the very poorest of Americans. Why would we want to downgrade what every American recieves already? The only people that could possibly gain from that would be the politicians.

Your delusional. Living in the Deep South must rot brains...

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by DanS


The US poverty rate is 12%, between that of France (6%) and the UK (18%).

Where did you get those numbers? They aren't borne out from Rufus' numbers, nor the OECD data I provided. Both of those show the US with a considerably higher rate than the UK, and indeed all the developed European economies.

[DanS]

Rufus' numbers? What are those? Are those the BS one-half of median "relative poverty" figures?

I don't know what to tell you. The CIA Factbook gives the UK number as 18%.

[Saras]

Relative poverty is a BS concept. Basically if the aim is to eliminate relative poverty, then the aim is 100% income equality - no wonder loony left, incl converts like Ted Striker don't want to talk about absolute poverty.

:vomit:

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Saras
Relative poverty is a BS concept. Basically if the aim is to eliminate relative poverty, then the aim is 100% income equality - no wonder loony left, incl converts like Ted Striker don't want to talk about absolute poverty.

:vomit:

I wouldn't say it's BS, but I agree it isn't the end-all-be-all of measurements. Almost every industrialized economy has a lower level of relative poverty than places in, say, Central America or Africa. And I don't think the aim is (or should be) to eliminate relative poverty, but not having it too high it seems to be a worthwhile goal. What the target should be, though, is certainly a matter of debate.

Also note that it's not average income that's looked at, but rather median. That means the way to address it is to bring up the bottom, not bring down the top.

[OzzyKP]

Poverty isn't so bad. I dunno what everyone is so worked up about. I'm hovering around the poverty line and I'm fairly comfortable. I don't have any extra spending money, but my basic needs are all met no problem. If being poor means you can't vacation in the Bahamas and drive a Lexus then the definition has no meaning.

The problem I feel is one of materialism, not capitalism. (they are NOT the same thing). People absolutely can get ahead if they work hard in this country and save their money. Quite a few of my friends are "poor", and they still have new Playstations and big TVs and go out to the club all the time. They live in crappy trailers or apartments and have to catch a bus instead of drive, but if they spent their money smarter they'd be doing just fine, like me.

But even with that being said, they aren't living so bad. Trailer parks aren't bad places to live. People here aren't starving or eating dog food. My friends may be considered poor by outsider economists and sociologist busybodies, but they live happy lives. They are far more concerned about everyday human things like family and relationships than they are about money.

Maybe that's the real trick. Start a political party that promises to find everyone love and you'll have a permanent majority.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Maybe that's the real trick. Start a political party that promises to find everyone love and you'll have a permanent majority.

More likely you'll have a permanent fringe group that would be lucky to get one tenth of one percent of the vote. In fact, aren't there some parties that actually do "promise" these sorts of things?

[OzzyKP]

Well promises AND delivers. That's the kicker.

[Darkstar]

Originally posted by Odin
Your delusional. Living in the Deep South must rot brains...

Nope. But working for the American government probably does. I see, every day, just what the process of American Buraeucrazing does to perfectly functional business processes, as well as entire business ventures.

The government, at its best, will manage to find a "one buttock" method to do anything. At its worst, it fails to actually do anything. This isn't a bad thing, if your life and health isn't dependant on them. But if your health is...