Anyone actually think Chinas occupation of Tibet IS legitamite?

[Vesayen]

Was discussing this earlier..... sometimes you simply think it is impossible ANYONE can hold the opposition view.

Does anyone here actually think the Chinese occupation of Tibet is legitamite?

[mrmitchell]

yes

[chequita guevara]

Let's toss these out to you.

Tibet was part of China from the 16th Century on. Tibet only became independent when China fell apart during the warlord period in the first part of the last century.

The feudal order under the Dalai Lama practiced slavery and was dictatorship. While the monks and nuns might be worse off than when they had an entire country do their bidding, the average Tibetan isn't necessarily. To listen to the Dalai Lama as a spokesperson of Tibet would be like listening to Southern plantaion owners lamanting the plight of their former slaves.

The majority of the population of Tibet today is Chinese. Normally I wouldn't bother to toss that in, but the occupation of Tibet is as old as the Jewish occupation of Palestine, which you support.

So, my question to you is, how can you supoprt the European colonization of Palestine and oppose the Chinese colonization of Tibet?

[RGBVideo]

UR in 3... 2... 1...

[chequita guevara]

Who voted yes?

[GePap]

Given that Tibet is recognized as Chinese territory by the international community, I say the answer is a pretty obvious one: almost everyone recognizes China's soverieignty over Tibet.

[chequita guevara]

Everytime I see a "Free Tibet" slogan I ask where I can get one.

[Tingkai]

When does an occupation of any territory become legitimate?

[chequita guevara]

Is the Chinese occupation of China legitimate?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Tingkai
When does an occupation of any territory become legitimate?

Since 1945, once the international community says its OK. That's why noone questions India's taking of Goa, or NIgeria's crusihgn of Biafra, or China taking Tibet, but the Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara or the Indonesian occupation of East Timor are not viewed as whole if at all legitimate.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#History

After 1907, a treaty between Britain, China, and Russia recognized Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. The Chinese established direct rule for the first time in 1910. It was not to last long, however, as Chinese troops had to withdraw to their homeland to fight in the 1911 Revolution, giving the Dalai Lama the opportunity to re-establish control. In 1913, Tibet and Mongolia signed a treaty proclaiming mutual recognition and their independence from China. In 1914 a treaty was negotiated in India by representatives of China, Tibet and Britain: the Simla Convention. Chinese suzerainty over Tibet and Tibetan autonomy were both recognized and a boundary negotiated between British India and Tibet which was very generous to Britain. The treaty was privately signed by Britain and Tibet; however, the Chinese side refused to sign the agreement, viewing it as being too yielding. China has never recognized the agreement nor the boundary set by it, thus paving the way to the Arunachal Pradesh dispute between China and India today.

The subsequent outbreak of World War I and civil war in China caused the Western powers and China to lose interest in Tibet, and the 13th Dalai Lama ruled undisturbed. At that time the government of Tibet controlled all of Ü-Tsang (Dbus-gtsang) and western Kham (Khams), roughly coincident with the borders of Tibet Autonomous Region today. Eastern Kham, separated by the Yangtze River was under the control of Chinese warlord Liu Wenhui. The situation in Amdo (Qinghai) was more complicated, with the Xining area controlled by ethnic Hui warlord Ma Bufang, who constantly strove to exert control over the rest of Amdo (Qinghai).

Neither the Nationalist government of the Republic of China nor the People's Republic of China has ever renounced China's claim to sovereignty over Tibet. In 1950 the People's Liberation Army entered Tibet, crushing the largely ceremonial Tibetan army and destroying as many as 6,000 Tibetan temples. In 1951 the Plan for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet, a treaty signed under Chinese pressure by representatives of the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, provided for rule by a joint Chinese-Tibetan authority. Most of the population of Tibet at that time were peasants, working lands owned by the estate holders. Any attempt at land reform or the redistribution of wealth would have proved unpopular with the government. This agreement was initially put into effect in Tibet proper. However, Eastern Kham and Amdo were outside the administration of the government of Tibet, and were thus treated like any other Chinese province with land reform implemented in full. As a result, a rebellion broke out in Amdo and eastern Kham in June of 1956. The rebellion, supported by the American CIA, eventually spread to Lhasa. It was crushed by 1959, during which campaign tens of thousands of Tibetans were killed. The 14th Dalai Lama and other government principals fled to exile in India, but isolated resistance continued in Tibet until 1969.

In essence, the POwers that Be recognized Chinese de Jure rule in 1907, and the issue was Chinese de Facto rule, which came back after the Communists had consolidated power in the rest of the country.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by GePap
NIgeria's crusihgn of Biafra,

US Presidential Candidate one day, crushed by Nigeria the next.

[chequita guevara]

Biafra took his name from the crushed region, kinda like I appropriated someone else's name and tweaked it.

[Az]

Yes. It's a clear cut case of chinese man's burden.

[snoopy369]

It's legitamite in any meaningful sense of the word. IE, they control the territory.

[Az]

, so if you control the territory, then you clearly are the legitimate ruler?