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  • #76
    Originally posted by Boris Godunov


    Except in 1992, when the GOP got 38% of the vote. Since then, the Democrats garnered more votes until 2004.
    yeah but that was a 3 way race. Even if Perot took more votes from clinton, that still indicates a GOP core over 40%

    and yes, in 1996 and 2000 neither party was held down to its core. so the last time the Dems were held to 40% was 1984. You think the Dems have a 45% core too? maybe. But continued GOP dominance of congress, governorships etc makes me skeptical.
    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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    • #77
      Originally posted by chegitz guevara
      Which all goes to show that the South isn't uniform.
      certainly not. several different cultural regions. Low country vs hill country vs mountain. On which is overlain race (whites tendiing to be more racially focused in areas with more blacks, all other things being equal) economic differences, etc.
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #78
        Originally posted by chegitz guevara
        Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
        It would be an interesting poll to see what the transplants such as myself think. My guess is they lean more towards conservative economic policies, but I may simply be transfereing my own beleifs where they may not exist.

        However I would guess those transfering are predominantly white collar and anti-union.


        They move for economic ones or for quality of life, which means that generally you're going to get a broad cross section of the place from where people are moving.
        I would agree hence my assessment that of the northerners moving south it will be biased towards white collar and with white collar normally goes anti-union. Blue collar types generally do not transplant as frequently in my observations as do white collar types.

        So perhaps the North gets bluer because the South gets redder via transplantation.
        "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

        “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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        • #79
          Originally posted by lord of the mark
          yeah but that was a 3 way race. Even if Perot took more votes from clinton, that still indicates a GOP core over 40%
          If the GOP got 38%, how could their "core" have been over 40% at the time? By definition, the core would be voting for them no matter what. And 4 years later, they got less than 45% of the vote as well.

          and yes, in 1996 and 2000 neither party was held down to its core. so the last time the Dems were held to 40% was 1984. You think the Dems have a 45% core too? maybe. But continued GOP dominance of congress, governorships etc makes me skeptical.
          No, I think the GOP and Dems probably both have ~40% core, and I think the Dems still enjoy a slightly larger core. However, the GOP has been much better at marketing itself to non-core voters in the last two elections, and it's much better at getting its core out in off-year congressional elections, which does not attract non-core voters nearly as mcuh.
          Tutto nel mondo è burla

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Boris Godunov


            If the GOP got 38%, how could their "core" have been over 40% at the time? By definition, the core would be voting for them no matter what. And 4 years later, they got less than 45% of the vote as well.
            I would define core as the minimum vote in a (eseentially) two way race. You add enough choices, you'll pare down anything. I mean if, say, Gary Hart had been on the ballot as well as Mondale in 1984, you think Mondale would still have gotten as many votes?
            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
              And yet nothing was implied regarding California as a whole's racism when marshal law was implemeted during the LA riots.
              You're joking right? For months afterwards all they played on the news is "Are white cops racist against blacks?".
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #82
                Your right the cops were, but was California or the west coast in general tarred with being racist as you imply the entirity of the South (or even a large portion thereof) is?
                "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                Comment


                • #83
                  No, but California doesn't have centuries of tradition of being racist, now does it? The burden is on the south to show it is no longer racist and its past actions mean people are always going to be suspecious of it. Just like that pediophile he says he's through with kiddie fiddling people are going to wonder and not trust them.

                  This means that when racist events like what happened in New Orleans occur then it leads large numbers of people to believe the south hasn't changed as much as it claims.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Oerdin
                    No, but California doesn't have centuries of tradition of being racist, now does it? .
                    youre kidding me, right?

                    Can you say asian exclusion?

                    Can you say native americans exterminated?
                    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                    • #85
                      The Asian exclusion was a federal government policy not a state policy. Same with the treatment of the natives.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                      • #86
                        My desire to maintain the already fragile Supreme Court majority for civil rights, voting rights and women's rights outweigh the respect I have for Judge Roberts's intellect, character, and legal skills.
                        This quote from Hillary says it all. A lot of the Dems don't care about competence or qualifications, they just want a judge that will uphold the policies they believe in.
                        'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                        G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Oerdin
                          The Asian exclusion was a federal government policy not a state policy. Same with the treatment of the natives.
                          You are just being willfully blind now, aren't you?
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #88
                            Re the next election:

                            I'm very much inclined to think that the Dems cannot win with a Senator at the top of the ticket. Kerry showed us why: any such figure will be unable to run against GOP misgovernance during the Bush years, becasue they probably voted for some of it. Beyond that, Governor's can point to the record of their state's accomplishments as their own, whereas Senators have nothing like that.

                            It should be a governor. That means it'll be a dark horse, since there are no Dem governors with national name recognition -- but that's not a bad thing. The last dark horse Dem governor to win the nomination, as you may recall, was this guy named Clinton; the Dems could do a lot worse.
                            "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


                              You are just being willfully blind now, aren't you?
                              The Asian exclusion act blocked immigration from Asian countries and was a Federal policy just like the treatment of native Americans. Most of the Natives in this state were dealt with or rounded up and put into missions by the Spanish centuries before the state government existed so I don't see how we can blame the state government for that.

                              I see that as being factual and not willfully blind.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Oerdin
                                No, but California doesn't have centuries of tradition of being racist, now does it?
                                California legislated racial catagories. You were either white, yellow or black. Mexicans were yellow and Indians were black, by law. After the U.S. took over California, the Hispanic majority was disenfranchised by force and systematically robbed without recourse to the law. Remember the Zuit Suit riots? Most of the Indians that survived Spanish colonialism were exterminated by American settlers, not the Feds. The Asian Exclusion Act, while a Federal law, was enacted at the behest of California.

                                California has a very racist history. Just cuz you didn't have Jim Crow doesn't mean you weren't among the very worst.
                                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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