Social Stability vs Individual Rights

[Sikander]

Originally posted by DaShi
Send a nuclear device to the center of the earth, of course.

What if we pay you ......One.....Million....Dollars.. not to do it?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Then he would work on Preparation a through h and ultimately design the Allan Parsons Project.

[Provost Harrison]

China and human rights

[:) Smiley]

1987: Martial law lifted.
1988: Financial deregulation.
1992: Legislature is democratically elected.
1996: President is democratically elected.
2000: Opposition party takes power.

The benefit of freedom for economic growth is undeniable. That of democracy on the other hand is questionable. I recall reading that elections expenditures take up a measurable percentage of the GDP.

Election season in Taiwan has become a festival rivalling New Years. During this season, candidates will sponsor and often participate in performances on the street, blanket buildings and road medians with colorful flags, and give out food and freebie consumer goods in party colors.

Speaking of party colors, one of the much criticized things that one of the parties did after taking office was painting a couple of government buildings their color at taxpayer expense.

As a whole though, while democracy may be a slight economic damper, it makes up for it in entertainment value. It's when people like Bush start getting elected that the costs start to get too high.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Berzerker
I seriously doubt crime rates were higher in 1800 Philadelphia than 2000.

Well, libertarians have never been good with history.

[Mao]

Originally posted by DaShi
Send a nuclear device to the center of the earth, of course.

Other than that, I'm not sure what can be done. As I said, it's fighting the culture and habits of billions of people. The first step, clearly, would be to clean house. Then perhaps outlaw guanxi long enough to get qualified people into higher positions. Once you have that, you need to find a way to make them accountable for their actions. No more face saving, more facing up. You can't learn from your mistakes, if you don't admit you've made any. In short, I'd be assassinated.

There's not much I can think of other than just to wait. Cultures don't change too fast, I would contend that you'd have to wait a generation of so... Slowly but surely, progress should be made.

That, or you just take the Beijing leadership and shoot them all...

[chequita guevara]

China needs a communist revolution.

[Mao]

I do remember reading about a report published a few years back about how some field grade PLA officers had expressed a desire for a "Nassar-like figure" to bring about a real revolution in China. That might be more scary than anything else, though...

[Velociryx]

The individual!

"Society" is merely a human construct, and as such, is subordinate to human beings as individuals.

-=Vel=-

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Smiley
1987: Martial law lifted.
1988: Financial deregulation.
1992: Legislature is democratically elected.
1996: President is democratically elected.
2000: Opposition party takes power.

The benefit of freedom for economic growth is undeniable. That of democracy on the other hand is questionable. I recall reading that elections expenditures take up a measurable percentage of the GDP.

Election season in Taiwan has become a festival rivalling New Years. During this season, candidates will sponsor and often participate in performances on the street, blanket buildings and road medians with colorful flags, and give out food and freebie consumer goods in party colors.

Speaking of party colors, one of the much criticized things that one of the parties did after taking office was painting a couple of government buildings their color at taxpayer expense.

As a whole though, while democracy may be a slight economic damper, it makes up for it in entertainment value. It's when people like Bush start getting elected that the costs start to get too high.

I'm still not convinced. Spending money on campaigns isn't necessarily bad for the economy. Unless you're willing to argue that holidays are harmful for the economy. In a large enough economy, it's hardly noticeable. China spends more on daily propaganda than a single Taiwanese campaign.

As for the Bush argument, one could just as easily say that when people like Mao ZeDong come into power, the costs get too high. In America's case, it will probably recover after the next elections. Look what Clinton did after Bush senior. Maoist China took his death and then Deng Xiaoping's rise to power to recover its economy.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
China needs a communist revolution.

I used to say the same thing.

[Berzerker]

Well, libertarians have never been good with history.

I'm not the one claiming I'd have more freedom in 2000 Philly than 1800 Philly because individualism has peaked.

"Society" is merely a human construct, and as such, is subordinate to human beings as individuals.

yup

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Velociryx
The individual!

"Society" is merely a human construct, and as such, is subordinate to human beings as individuals.

-=Vel=-

The "individual" is a mere human construct. Without society it cannot exist.

[Frankychan]

I don't necessarily agree that this is a social order vs. individualism argument.

It's more like a humanitarian issue and Justice. The guys getting his a** beat to confess to something he may (or maynot) have done. Furthermore, Justice isn't being served here. The guys are just looking for a quick scapegoat. Nevermind looking for the actual perps.

I can't see how anyone who lives in the U.S. could think that total individualism results in a more stable society, with all the freaking crime we have.

I'd argue more but my reasoning would just be falling on deaf ears...

[Mr. Harley]

Before us Americans get on our high horse, in Texas a prosecutor wanted to destroy all the old rape kits in storage because the system has to have finality, and if the man was duly convicted by his peers and had exhausted his appeals obviously justice had been served. A court order was taken out to stop it, and I lost track of the case after that. Of course I believe Texas has more executions than any other country except for China -