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  • Chinese to build next Windows?

    Microsoft plans to outsource more, says ex-worker

    By Brier Dudley
    Seattle Times technology reporter

    Microsoft is on track to outsource more than 1,000 jobs a year to China, according to blistering evidence released yesterday in Microsoft's increasingly nasty spat with Google over an employee who jumped ship in July.

    In a revelation that highlights the complexity of China President Hu Jintao's visit to Seattle and Microsoft on Monday, legal filings detailed claims of how Microsoft had offended the Chinese government by not outsourcing as many jobs as promised to Chinese technology vendors.

    Chief Executive Steve Ballmer visited China in 2003 and promised to step up the pace, from $33 million worth of work a year to $55 million a year, according to a statement by Kai-Fu Lee, a former vice president who left to work for Google in July. Lee was charged with smoothing over relations with China and finding jobs that could be shifted to Chinese contract workers.

    "At the time of my departure, MS was on track to outsource over 1,000 jobs a year to China," he said in a court declaration. A Microsoft spokeswoman said the company has transferred some projects to China "in order to free up teams here for other work."

    "We are growing our work force there and will continue to do so; however, that growth has not and will not replace jobs here in Redmond," spokeswoman Stacy Drake said.

    Microsoft continues to hire thousands of new employees a year in Redmond, but the pace of hiring has slowed. Simultaneously, it has increased work in China, India and other technology hubs.

    Google is likewise extending its reach, and Lee was hired to start a Google research center in China. Microsoft immediately sued to prevent him from working there for a year, citing a noncompete agreement he signed in 2000. King County Superior Court Judge Steven Gonzalez granted Microsoft a temporary restraining order in July and is set to review the case in a hearing starting Tuesday.

    Drawing on thousands of e-mails, notes and other material, Microsoft filed a motion with the court that painted Lee as a bit of a schemer. It said Lee removed "Microsoft confidential" labels from a strategy document on China and sent it to Google while pursuing his new job. It also said Lee continued to attend China strategy meetings after he began talking with Google.

    Google said Microsoft doesn't have a case and that the confidential material was already made public by Chairman Bill Gates and Microsoft's Web site. It also released a statement from a former employee portraying Ballmer as a foul-mouthed fit-thrower.

    It remains to be seen how the back and forth will affect the lawsuit. But the filings provide the deepest look at Microsoft's internal tensions since its antitrust trial in the late 1990s.

    In his declaration, Lee contends Microsoft's China research center was disorganized and needed to be unified, but his proposals met resistance from managers who wanted to continue making key decisions in Redmond. Lee said he decided to leave after disagreements with Senior Vice President Steve Sinfosky, head of the Office operation, and research chief Rick Rashid over his plan for China, and after Ballmer's "inadequate" response to his plan.

    Microsoft said Lee apparently reached out to Google the day after interviewing a Microsoft job candidate who let on he was talking to Google about opening its China lab. In his statement, Lee said he found out about Google's plans for the lab from a Chinese news Web site. He also denied sharing confidential materials, and downplayed his significance to Microsoft's work on search products.

    The details about Ballmer were in a declaration by former Distinguished Engineer Marc Lucovsky, who in November 2004 told Ballmer he was leaving for Google. Lucovsky said Ballmer threw a chair across his office and cussed out Google Chief Executive Eric Schmidt, saying, "I'm going to ... bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going ... to kill Google."

    Lucovsky said Ballmer encouraged him to stay at Microsoft and told him that "Google's not a real company. It's a house of cards."

    After Google sent the Lucovsky statement to reporters yesterday, Ballmer issued a statement denying the account.

    "Mark Lucovsky's account of our conversation last November is a gross exaggeration of what actually took place," he said. "Mark's decision to leave was disappointing and I urged him strongly to change his mind. But his characterization of that meeting is not accurate."

    Lucovsky's declaration says nothing about Lee, but Google lawyer Nicole Wong said it's relevant.

    "Microsoft is trying to stop employees from trying to come to Google — that's what this case is about," she said. "The Lucovsky declaration shows a pattern of behavior that supports this."


    Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
    Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
    giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

  • #2
    The software engineering jobs don't get outsourced to India and China, it's usually services or codemonkey work.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

    Comment


    • #3
      18 min

      i need more excercise....
      Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
      Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
      giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, you are somewhat overweight.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment


        • #5
          How's Red Flag linux doing?

          I remember thinking - the Chinese government is behind it, this is the big test of linux. They are either going to make it now or never.

          I didn't follow up on the story though.

          Comment


          • #6
            :vomitorium
            <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Asher
              Yes, you are somewhat overweight.
              i know, i've tried everything
              Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
              Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
              giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

              Comment


              • #8
                ChinWin - now with human skin

                CSPA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Asher
                  The software engineering jobs don't get outsourced to India and China, it's usually services or codemonkey work.
                  It must take some real software engineering talent to come up with such a hideous design.
                  (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                  (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                  (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Urban Ranger
                    It must take some real software engineering talent to come up with such a hideous design.
                    Urban Ranger is the clear example of why software engineering does not get exported to China.

                    They don't understand the fundamentals of computing, but pretend they do.

                    He backs Linux, which is largely considered a monstrocity of a monolithic design, while at the same time blasting the Windows design. He doesn't understand standard usecases, he doesn't understand the computer market, etc.

                    He's the very typical example of a codemonkey who thinks he's more. He's the kind of person who will be employed in China, and you can rest assured they won't get any say in its design.
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Asher - have you taken some sort of obnoxiousness pill lately? The Majority of your posts in the last couple of days have consisted of negative comments, insults, or similiar statements. Maybe, just maybe, contribute to the conversation as opposed to not even being able to make a factual statement without adding unpleasantness to it, i.e. discourse instead of flaming. It is a shame is that you are smart and knowledgable, but damn I hope I wasn't as obnoxious when I was your age.
                      The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
                      And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
                      Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
                      Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There are certain people on these forums -- and Urban Ranger is certainly one of them -- that do not contribute to genuine debates. After a while one becomes disenchanted...

                        He's clearly shown on these forums, repeatedly, to not understand even the fundamentals of software design and engineering but he constantly spews rhetoric and lies to spread his ideologies. It's almost infuriating.

                        When he posts his nonsense and I post a rebuttal (usually rife with links and proof to the contrary), he will simply ignore that thread. I reserve the right to be obnoxious to people like that, especially when they prance around pretending to be some sort of intellectual.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          And I don't understand what kind of "discourse" you would expect to follow from his comment, which was essentially an uninformed comment he made to bash MS alone, without actually contributing anything.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Asher - you can say everything you say without the, how to say this, embellishments. You can just rebut him point by point (I've linked to some of yours, FYI) and you will have more credibility than if you lace your statements with insults. It's not just UR - look at your drive-by when all I asked for was Linux tutorials.

                            I realize you are going to be a computer scientist or engineer - I'm not sure which don't know enough details and am uncertain about the distinctions - and I realize that you know much more than a simple ex-programmer like myself. However, when legitimate points are made, you tend to use the same techniques to ride roughshod over them as you do over those where you do have the requisite expertise to state what is ridiculous.

                            When you do this, you end up with people tuning you out. Take the high ground and eventually people listen to you even more. You have made some excellent points about MS programming and its design. But your expertise there does not, for example, automatically mean we must defer to your judgements on marketing and monopolistic behavior - you aren't an economist, and they are notorious for the old "Ask three economists a question and you'll get four opinions." Tone it down a little - and trust me, from an intense guy whose learned to be a little bit less so himself - you'll enjoy yourself more too.
                            The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
                            And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
                            Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
                            Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm not around to become some kind of all-mighty person to defer judgement to, I post here because I enjoy it -- "intensity" and all. Sometimes it'll get me banned, other times it'll get me ridiculed, and other times it'll get me laughs. It's all good.

                              There's so much diplomacy and politics in the real world so it's nice to just be able to speak my mind somewhere --warts and all.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                              Comment

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