A book for Molly

[lord of the mark]

Im reading Kevin Phillip's "The Cousins' Wars"

Its a history of English Civil War, the American Revolution, and the American Civil War, attempting to draw links between them, focusing the religious, ethnic, and ideological linkages from the Parliamentary/Cromwellian side of the ECW to the Patriot side of the Am Rev and the northern side of the ACW, and OTOH from the royalist side of the ECW, to the AR loyalists, and the ACW south. Also discussing the view of the ECW from the nascent colonies ( the more radical stages of the Cromwell regime scared off the conservative authorities in New England) and internal divisions in GB over the AR and ACW -(trying to make the case that old Cromwellian areas were more pro-American, etc) Theres some questionable stuff, but its very interesting.

[Japher]

any pictures?

[Pekka]

sounds very interesting. Maybe Amazon.com sells this.

[lord of the mark]

Only pic is on the cover - a boring pic of some revolutionary soldiers with a cannon, i think.

But plenty of cool maps. For example a map of where all the Congregationalist churches were in america in 1776. A map Scottish settlement in America, pointing out which ones were loyalist, which patriot (covenanter settlements in New Jersey were solidly patriot, while highlander settlements in North Carolina and northern New York were loyalist)

Yes, Im sure its on Amazon. It was a best seller when it came out in '97. The author is not a professiaonal historian, but a political commentator (a "populist" Republican - who though Gingrich was too pro-corporate, and turned to history as a relief from '90s politics)

I mention Molly, cause of our earlier discussions of connections between puritanism and later New England politics.

Some interesting stuff - High church Anglicans in the Northern colonies, converted by the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel, very Tory. Vs Low church "vestry" anglicans in Virginia, solidly patriot. Churched Ulster Presbyterians in Pennsylvania (heavily patriot) vs Scots Irish backwoodsmen in South Carolina (often Tory) Free Blacks in New England - who joined local patriot militias - vs slaves in Carolina, who ran off to the British.

[Bereta_Eder]

I want to read the best selling novel in turrkey that says about the war between turkey-usa.

if anyone knows if it's in english please let me know

[Bereta_Eder]

i found somethign in english.

i really want to read this book. so if anyone. please. thanks.
sorry. bye

Turkey: A New Al-Qaeda State?
By Steven Stalinsky
FrontPageMagazine.com | March 25, 2005

A picture is worth a thousand words. A couple months after Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was elected to office representing the Justice and Development Party, the Turkish daily Star Gazette ran a photo on July 10, 2003 which shows Afghan jihad leader (and Taliban and Al-Qaida ally) Gulbuddin Hikmatyar sitting with two men kneeling at his feet. The man on the right is the current Prime Minister of Turkey. The caption reads: "Taliban in the armchair, kneeling is the Prime Minister." It is important to recognize the significance of sitting at one's feet in Islamic tradition, it implies spiritual submission.

Hikmatyar has long-established ties with Osama bin Ladin and is responsible for offering to shelter bin Ladin in Afghanistan after he fled Sudan in 1996. Following September 11, 2001, he pledged allegiance with the spiritual leader of the Taliban, Mullah Omar to launch a guerrilla war on the Afghan government and U.S. troops there. Hikmatyar was named in Executive Order 13224 as a "Specially Designated Global Terrorist" the same month Erdogan was elected.

After Erdogan came to power, media reports in the West displayed some initial concern for a possible Islamist tilt by Turkey. As the Voice of America (VOA) reported this week, the "underlying U.S.-Turkish tensions is the growing presence of Islam.” The VOA went on to discuss how the U.S. had been in support of Turkey's experiment with a party that originated from the Islamist movement and that when it initially came to power it was viewed as something that would prove that Islam and democracy are compatible.



The VOA quoted a professor explaining Turkey's opposition to U.S. activity in Iraq does not justify members of the government and medias’ anti-Americanism, "When you have serious newspapers publishing articles about the U.S. having a secret weapon that makes earthquakes and that Istanbul is the next target…When you have newspapers that publish all kinds of scurrilous articles about the U.S., that is more worrisome. The problem is that some Turkish politicians have joined the fray and have accused the U.S. of genocide and all kinds of other activities in Iraq."

Since the Islamists came to power, there definitely has been a noted increase in anti-Americanism in the country. This can be supported by the BBC poll that found 82% of Turks are anti-American, as well as one of Turkey’s current best-selling novel’s being based on a futuristic war with the U.S. Additionally, Turkish protestors laid "black" wreaths of flowers during Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s visit last month as part of the demonstrations outside the American embassy.



MEMRI’s Turkish Media Project currently monitors and translates Turkey’s printed media, and will shortly begin to cover major television channels, sermons from mosques, as well as textbooks from schools. To date, this project has found rampant anti-Americanism. One example includes the Turkish Islamic daily Yeni Safak, known for unofficial ties to the current Turkish administration (such as the fact that a child of the owner of the paper recently married a child of Turkey's Prime Minister).



Shortly after the U.S. election last year, Dr. Husnu Mahalli, a columnist for the paper wrote on November 17: "For God's sake, when will we see the realities? …When will we understand that this is a new Crusader war?…When will we realize that American aggression targets…all Muslim countries and peoples?…When will we stop this admiration for America? … When will we be ashamed of 'welcoming' the murderer soldiers of America … Americans are using Iraqi civilians as human shields to protect themselves... One can expect no less from the faithless, treacherous, murderous Americans… After bombing the mosques of Fallujah, the American soldiers desecrate them by urinating on and soiling their walls. After raiding homes, American soldiers strip the women and girls naked and molest them … and this is why 59 million Americans voted for Bush… In the words of [Turkish TV personality and actor] Levent Kirca: 'U.S.A. – the God-damned country'…"

The most recent casualty of the U.S.-Turkish rift is U.S. ambassador to Turkey Eric Edelman’s resignation. Some reports point to a statement Edelman made and was misquoted about dealing with Turkey’s President Ahmet Necdet Sezer’s April visit to Syria as the reason. It is plausible to suggest issues surrounding the Iraq war are partially responsible for Turkey’s increased anti-Americanism. But given that the country is ruled by an Islamist government whose Prime Minister has given his spiritual devotion to an ally of Al-Qaida, raises many questions which have yet to be explored.

*Steven Stalinsky is Executive Director of The Middle East Media Research Institute.

[Ramo]

Kevin Philips is an interesting guy. I liked his book "Wealth and Democracy" and his contributions to Now.

[Ramo]

[Sikander]

And yet we still prefer Turkey to Greece.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I mention Molly, cause of our earlier discussions of connections between puritanism and later New England politics.

And of course because you're a gentleman- in the true sense of the word.


Had I not been so busy over the past few days, I would have seen if our library had a copy, because I noticed your mention of it in a previous thread (see, I do pay attention to some people's posts).

It is something I had already been aware of to a certain extent- a radical Puritan preacher made the voyage back from North America to England during the wars to preach to teh army of the godly in England, and ultimately paid for his neck with it, come the Restoration (unfortunately his name escapes me for the moment).

It's also worth considering how many American presidents have been of Ulster/Scots Protestant descent- a significant percentage*.

Certainly it's evident that the revolutionary ideas of enfranchisement espoused by the dissenting sects (and expressed in the Putney debates) would later bear fruit in the American colonies, even if they were altered to a certain extent.

You can also see the likes of Milton and his thought as expressed in 'Areopagitica' underpinning American ideals of the freedom of speech.

Now if only the decision of Lord Chief Justice Holt in 1706 had been followed on both sides of the Atlantic, how different history might have been:

'No man can have property in another... there is no such thing as a slave by the laws of England.'

and then in 1707, he reiterates:

'As soon as a Negro comes into England, he becomes a free man.'

Lord Chief Justice Holt, 'Salkeld's Reports', Vol. 11,
pg. 666 (!), quoted in James Walvin's 'Black Personalities in the Era of the Slave Trade', publ. Allen Lane, 1973, also Gretchen Gerzina, 'Black England' publ. John Murray.

*For anyone interested they are :

Andrew Jackson, James Knox Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Ulysses Simpson Grant, Chester Alan Arthur, Grover Cleveland, Benjamin Harrison, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson.

http://www.ulsternation.org.uk/ulster's%20contribution%20to%20america.htm


Precarious priests :

'The tottering Prelates, with their trumpery all, Shall moulder downe, like Elder from the wall'.

I forgot the website for the Civil War piccy- mea culpa, mea maxima culpa:

http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary/controller/subjectidsearch?id=8747