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  • Geeks vs Suits

    Found a great article.

    (This is the foreword to Rick Chapman’s new book, In Search of Stupidity.) In every high tech company I’ve known, there’s a war going on, between the geeks and the suits. Before you start rea…



    Rick Chapman is In Search of Stupidity

    By Joel Spolsky
    Friday, August 01, 2003
    Printer Friendly Version

    (This is the foreword to Rick Chapman's new book, In Search of Stupidity.)

    In every high tech company I’ve known, there’s a war going on, between the geeks and the suits.

    Before you start reading this great new book full of propaganda from software marketing wizard and über-suit Rick Chapman, let me take a moment to tell you what the geeks think.

    Play along with me for a minute, will you?

    Please imagine the most stereotypically pale, Jolt-drinking, Chinese-food-eating, video-game-playing, slashdot-reading Linux-command-line-dwelling dork. Since this is just a stereotype, you should be free to imagine either a runt or a kind of chubby fellow, but in either case this is not the kind of person who plays football with his high school pals when he visits mom for Thanksgiving. Also, since he’s a stereotype, I shall not have to make complicated excuses for making him a him.

    This is what our stereotypical programmer thinks: “Microsoft makes inferior products, but they have superior marketing, so everybody buys their stuff.”

    Ask him what he thinks about the marketing people in his own company. “They’re really stupid. Yesterday I got into a big argument with this stupid sales chick in the break room and after ten minutes it was totally clear that she had no clue what the difference between 802.11a and 802.11b is. Duh!”

    What do marketing people do, young geek? “I don’t know. They play golf with customers or something, when they’re not making me correct their idiot spec sheets. If it was up to me I’d fire ‘em all.”

    A nice fellow named Jeffrey Tarter used to publish an annual list of the hundred largest personal computer software publishers called the Soft-letter 100. Here’s what the top ten looked like in 1984[1]:

    Code:
    Rank 	Company 	Annual Revenues
    #1 	Micropro International 	$60,000,000
    #2 	Microsoft Corp. 	$55,000,000
    #3 	Lotus 	$53,000,000
    #4 	Digital Research 	$45,000,000
    #5 	VisiCorp 	$43,000,000
    #6 	Ashton-Tate 	$35,000,000
    #7 	Peachtree 	$21,700,000
    #8 	MicroFocus 	$15,000,000
    #9 	Software Publishing 	$14,000,000
    #10 	Broderbund 	$13,000,000

    OK, Microsoft is number 2, but it is one of a handful of companies with roughly similar annual revenues.

    Now let’s look at the same list for 2001.
    Code:
    Rank 	Company 	Annual Revenues
    #1 	Microsoft Corp. 	$23,845,000,000
    #2 	Adobe 	$1,266,378,000
    #3 	Novell 	$1,103,592,000
    #4 	Intuit 	$1,076,000,000
    #5 	Autodesk 	$926,324,000
    #6 	Symantec 	$790,153,000
    #7 	Network Associates 	$745,692,000
    #8 	Citrix 	$479,446,000
    #9 	Macromedia 	$295,997,000
    #10 	Great Plains 	$250,231,000
    Whoa. Notice, if you will, that every single company except Microsoft has disappeared from the top ten. Also notice, please, that Microsoft is so much larger than the next largest player, it’s not even funny. Adobe would double in revenues if they could just get Microsoft’s soda pop budget.

    The personal computer software market is Microsoft. Microsoft’s revenues, it turns out, make up 69% of the total revenues of all the top 100 companies combined.

    This is what we’re talking about, here.

    Is this just superior marketing, as our imaginary geek claims? Or the result of an illegal monopoly? (Which begs the question: how did Microsoft get that monopoly? You can’t have it both ways.)

    According to Rick Chapman, the answer is simpler: Microsoft was the only company on the list that never made a fatal, stupid mistake. Whether this was by dint of superior brainpower or just dumb luck, the biggest mistake Microsoft made was the dancing paperclip. And how bad was that, really? We ridiculed them, shut it off, and went back to using Word, Excel, Outlook, and Internet Explorer every minute of every day. But for every other software company that once had market leadership and saw it go down the drain, you can point to one or two giant blunders that steered the boat into an iceberg. Micropro fiddled around rewriting the printer architecture instead of upgrading their flagship product, WordStar. Lotus wasted a year and a half shoehorning 123 to run on 640kb machines; by the time they were done Excel was shipping and 640kb machines were a dim memory. Digital Research wildly overcharged for CP/M-86 and lost a chance to be the de-facto standard for PC operating systems. VisiCorp sued themselves out of existence. Ashton-Tate never missed an opportunity to piss off dBase developers, poisoning the fragile ecology that is so vital to a platform vendor’s success.

    I’m a programmer, of course, so I tend to blame the marketing people for these stupid mistakes. Almost all of them revolve around a failure of non-technical business people to understand basic technology facts. When Pepsi-pusher John Sculley was developing the Apple Newton, he didn’t know something that every computer science major in the country knows: handwriting recognition is not possible. This was at the same time that Bill Gates was hauling programmers into meetings begging them to create a single rich text edit control that could be reused in all their products. Put Jim Manzi (the suit who let the MBAs take over Lotus) in that meeting and he would be staring blankly. “What’s a rich text edit control?” It never would have occurred to him to take technological leadership because he didn’t grok the technology; in fact, the very use of the word grok in that sentence would probably throw him off.

    If you ask me, and I’m biased, no software company can succeed unless there is a programmer at the helm. So far the evidence backs me up. But many of these boneheaded mistakes come from the programmers themselves. Netscape’s monumental decision to rewrite their browser instead of improving the old code base cost them several years of Internet time, during which their market share went from around 90% to about 4%, and this was the programmers’ idea. Of course, the nontechnical and inexperienced management of that company had no idea why this was a bad idea. There are still scads of programmers who defend Netscape’s ground-up rewrite. “The old code really sucked, Joel!” Yeah, uh-huh. Such programmers should be admired for their love of clean code, but they shouldn’t be allowed within 100 feet of any business decisions, since it’s obvious that clean code is more important to them than shipping, uh, software.

    So I’ll concede to Rick a bit and say that if you want to be successful in the software business, you have to have a management team that thoroughly understands and loves programming, but they have to understand and love business, too. Finding a leader with strong aptitude in both dimensions is difficult, but it’s the only way to avoid making one of those fatal mistakes that Rick catalogs lovingly in this book. So read it, chuckle a bit, and if there’s a stupidhead running your company, get your résumé in shape and start looking for a house in Redmond.
    It's similar to an argument I've made here before -- can tech companies successfully have non-tech people making decisions at the top?
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    #10 Broderbund $13,000,000


    I remember them! They published Myst

    Comment


    • #3
      I wonder where Novell is now.
      We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

      Comment


      • #4
        Being a techie, I have to say I'm biased in favor of the technical side making the decisions.

        I've seen countless blowouts because of the higher ups not understanding the underlying technology.

        I've seen marketing oversell their product and then lack the abilty to support that product.

        On the other hand, software companies are not going to grow without a strong sales force. If nothing else, the sales team speaks that silly language that the managers, who have all the cash, speak.
        We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ted Striker
          I wonder where Novell is now.
          Hopefully festering in hell.

          Comment


          • #6
            Man, I can't wait to get into this stupid world. :/
            urgh.NSFW

            Comment


            • #7
              According to Rick Chapman, the answer is simpler: Microsoft was the only company on the list that never made a fatal, stupid mistake.
              That is so not true. For starters, we have MS-DOS 4. Microsoft survived because it had a monopoly. The second exhibit is named "Multiplan." Falling out with IBM could have been the biggest lethal mistake, but IBM made a similar giant blunder to counterbalance it.
              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ted Striker
                I wonder where Novell is now.
                Suing the life out of SCO.
                (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Geeks vs Suits

                  Originally posted by Asher
                  It's similar to an argument I've made here before -- can tech companies successfully have non-tech people making decisions at the top?
                  For the most part, no, but I think that there will always be a niche market for "cute" tech products, meaning that Apple will continue to survive with Jobs and without Wozniak.
                  <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Urban Ranger
                    Microsoft survived because it had a monopoly.
                    No, they survived because they had an illegal monopoly, and threatened to withhold selling their software to any company that didn't pony up a liscensing fee for every PC they sold, regardless of whether MS-DOS was on it or not.

                    But the government merely slapped them on the wrist for this and told them not to do it again, and so there's no use whining about it. What's done is done. XP is a fine OS, and many MS products are really quite good now.
                    Last edited by chequita guevara; August 24, 2005, 09:37.
                    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Urban Ranger
                      That is so not true. For starters, we have MS-DOS 4. Microsoft survived because it had a monopoly. The second exhibit is named "Multiplan." Falling out with IBM could have been the biggest lethal mistake, but IBM made a similar giant blunder to counterbalance it.
                      How did MS get the monopoly?
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Geeks vs Suits

                        Originally posted by Asher
                        It's similar to an argument I've made here before -- can tech companies successfully have non-tech people making decisions at the top?
                        Depends on what you mean by "non-tech" people. It's really no different in any other industry - if your top people don't have a good grasp of the industry, you're not going to succeed. I don't know if you necessarily need to be a programmer to run a tech company, but you'd better have a damn solid understanding of the technology you are creating and the competitive environment you're in. Which, again, is really no different from the banking, retail, auto manufacturing or most other industries.
                        "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
                        "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
                        "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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                        • #13
                          It's similar to an argument I've made here before -- can tech companies successfully have non-tech people making decisions at the top?


                          Similar, but not exactly. I think this guy's argument is better, which is:

                          "you have to have a management team that thoroughly understands and loves programming, but they have to understand and love business, too"

                          You can't get away with just putting techies in charge.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #14
                            Of course, that was what I had hoped to be implicit.

                            You get a techy who understands the technology, someone who is business-savvy, and put them in charge.
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Word up

                              A good of this was Informix versus Oracle

                              In the late 90s, Informix had a more stable and MUCH easier to use database engine than Oracle. Informix was tech heavy but Oracle was a monster with marketing and sales.

                              But Oracle eventually won the market because of their marketing savvy. The better product in this case didn't win out.

                              Oracle is overrated.

                              DB2 and Informix kick its ass any day of the week, except maybe in terms of third party cutsey plugin support.
                              We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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