Slave reparations (UK C4 program)

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Shows what you know.

Yes, the truth.

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

By the metric that millions of their people wouldn't have been carted off or slaughtered,

Fair enough, but Europeans killed each other just as much. As well, it's not that Africa was a bastion of peace before the arrival of Europeans anyway.

that their societies wouldn't have been destroyed,

What do you call what is happening to Africa now? It's the same as it's always been.

that their modern nations wouldn't have been articfically cobbled together across ethnic boundires in the interests of Europe,

So African leaders are incapable of tolerance of any other tribes. It sounds like they're the ones with the race problem.

that the African people wouldn't have been hearded into the disease ridden parts of Africa, etc.

Africans are in every part of Africa, so unless all of it is diseased, it's ridiculous to suggest such a thing.

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


What year are we talking about?

You don't know what year and you're lecturing us on Africa's history?

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


The difference being that most of the Cuban government is black, whereas almost none of the American government is Black.

You're right, the Cuban government is mostly black.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
What do you call what is happening to Africa now? It's the same as it's always been.

Let me get this straight.

Today's Africa is organized in nation-States. Their economies are heavily reliant on the world market. The main social hierarchies are made along the lines of personal wealth and relationship with the state's bureaucracy.

Let's compare with how it was before:
- Small kingdoms, or empires based on vassalization = a more palpable link between the subjects and the political order.
- economies essentially about self-sustainment (considering that a semi-autarchic rural life was what most African knew)
- social hierarchies along the lines of nobility or social function.

Yes. Africa is the same as it has always been. The Europeans didn't bring their social model at all in Africa

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Today's Africa is organized in nation-States. Their economies are heavily reliant on the world market.

Without that world market, there would be no visible economy for those countries. Nothing is stopping them from rejecting individual success and living in a commune or out in the bush.

The main social hierarchies are made along the lines of personal wealth and relationship with the state's bureaucracy.

Let's compare with how it was before:
- Small kingdoms, or empires based on vassalization = a more palpable link between the subjects and the political order.

Those two above items sound almost identical. Instead of being King or Chief, you're General or President (and sometimes both.)

- economies essentially about self-sustainment (considering that a semi-autarchic rural life was what most African knew)

So there was no famine or suffering before the arrival of Europeans? Besides, what is preventing them from returning to that lifestyle?

- social hierarchies along the lines of nobility or social function.

It sounds like we did them a favor by getting rid of that.

Yes. Africa is the same as it has always been. The Europeans didn't bring their social model at all in Africa

The social model changes, but people stay the same. Personal achievement in Africa today is just now more easily attainable than it was in the past.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
You don't know what year and you're lecturing us on Africa's history?

Wow, you are really ****ing obtuse, aren't you? Why don't you go away and come back when you figure out the use of smilies to indicate sarcasism.

[rmsharpe]

I guess I'm not that great at detecting sarcasm. Maybe Mansa Musa should've gave me a scholarship to Sankore University, I'd be a lot smarter.

[Dauphin]

[q=Dis]
[q=kuciwalker]
Ignore Dissident.

[/q]
why?
[/q]

No one should ever ignore Dissident. He is top drawer material!

[Caligastia]

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
The social model changes

And that's exactly my point. I'm not arguing whether the model we forced on them is better or worse. I'm arguing that the western social systems took centuries to become mature in Europe, and they were forced at gunpoint on the Africans within one or two generations.

I'm arguing that the social fabric of Africa has been completely destroyed to be "replaced" by a model Africa wasn't ready for. As a result, the stability of the continent has been wiped out.

This is why I called you on tthat statement:

It's the same as it's always been

Things have changed. Radically.

[rmsharpe]

I'm looking at politically and intertribally. Have you ever heard the expression "the more things change, the more they stay the same?" That's mostly what I'm getting at.

I don't think anyone should get the impression that Africa was a bastion of peace and prosperity.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
I don't think anyone should get the impression that Africa was a bastion of peace and prosperity.

I don't get that impression, and neither does Chegitz. However, the situation in most of Africa is far worse now that the West has committed its economic, cultural and political rape on the continent.

Most of today's African woes (except disease) find some responsibility in the inadequacy between the western and the traditional social model.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Dauphin
[q=Dis]
[q=kuciwalker]
Ignore Dissident.

[/q]
why?
[/q]

No one should ever ignore Dissident. He is top drawer material!

Just like socks and condoms.