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The Bush Antinomy

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  • The Bush Antinomy

    1) The applicability of Democracy, Justice and Human Rights is universal (e.g. Bush's rhetorical justification for the war in Iraq)

    2. The applicability of Democracy, Justice and Human Rights is particular (e.g. the real implications of Camp X-Ray and the Military Tribunals)

    My primary issue with Guantanamo Bay is not that it defies Universal laws of Democracy, Justice and Human Rights, but that it's defiers use these "laws" to justify their actions elsewhere.

    George W. Bush either has to admit that the Bill of Rights and the Geneva Convention are of only limited applicability, or he must do everything within his power to ensure their universal applicability.

    Bush, Blair and Howard must admit to the public that they believe liberal democracy and its freedoms must be abridged to ensure safety. If they truly believe in liberal democracy and its freedoms then they must admit to the public that they must allow conditions to prevail that leave society open to danger. Freedom and Security are not common bedfellows.

    They must put forward their true case to us: that universal human rights and civil liberties are no longer tenable. They must stop justifying their actions in terms of these principles whilst at the same time sneaking them out the back door. The public will either approve or disapprove, but they will all respect their leader's backbone for telling the truth.

    We may be seeing an end to the so-called upward momentum of freedom... just as freedom has spread so far across the globe. In the hour of it's triumph, freedom crosses it's own apex and thus begins its afternoon.

    In this context the ironic may occur: just as the conservatives came to advocate the progressive and revolutionary extension of liberal economics over society... it may so end that the only ones to remain in defense of bourgeois liberty are leftists like myself!

  • #2
    Not sure I get the Antimony reference. It is some kind of rare metal, right?

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    • #3
      I was hoping for an antidote.
      I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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      • #4
        An antinomy is a pair of propositions that are contradictory but both can be rationally applied/accepted.

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        • #5
          my head hurts
          To us, it is the BEAST.

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          • #6
            my head hurts
            quoted for emphasis
            Monkey!!!

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            • #7
              Why does your head hurt?
              Blah

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              • #8
                3 Things

                1. Democracy does not dismiss the need or notion of necessary evils.

                2. No society exists independent of other societies, politics included. Especially a democracy that has at it's core a capitalistic economy that relies on international trade.

                3. Freedom and Security may not make common bedfellows, but that is not a fault of Democracy. Nor does Democracy draw this conclusion as Dracon wants us to believe.
                Monkey!!!

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                • #9
                  While I think I understand the idea behind the "Freedom and Security may not make common bedfellows" thing, and would agree with that to some point you also could say that freedom without security is not much freedom anyway. I mean when you get blown up in a bus or so it is the ultimate violation of your rights.....sure there is the danger that civil liberties are undermined by new anti-terror laws, but I don't think that freedom and security are mutually exclusive, as the line above seems to suggest. It is a question of the balance between both IMO.
                  Blah

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                  • #10
                    Balance of Freedom and security...hmmm. Sounds like Orwell was a prophet afterall.
                    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                    • #11
                      What's Orwellian about it? Wouldn't Orwellian be where security is all, and freedom nothing? That's no balance at all.....

                      Is it really that evil to say that your freedom is ultimately gone when someone decides to blow you up?
                      Blah

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                      • #12
                        Well, when one is blown up, the person's limbs would have freedom from being attached to the body.
                        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                        • #13
                          FREEDOOOM !!!

                          but i don't think mel gibson meant it the mrfun way.
                          "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                          • #14
                            yes, and thank god he didn't mean it that way
                            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BeBro
                              What's Orwellian about it? Wouldn't Orwellian be where security is all, and freedom nothing? That's no balance at all.....

                              Is it really that evil to say that your freedom is ultimately gone when someone decides to blow you up?
                              The Orwellian aspect is that we are being continually told how free we are and are continually being made less free. The logical conclusion of this path is the Orwellian society.

                              Perhaps Ben Franklin put it best: "Those who are willing to sacrifice freedom for security are deserving of neithier"

                              I'll take my chances in a free society if you please. For Patrick Henry said it all: "Give me liberty or give me death!"
                              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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