Some gays are taught to hate themselves.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
Fact: that gayness is not wrong is an opinion.

Fact: Bodds is a bigot.

[Solly]

Fact: Kuciwalker is a nonce.

[Japher]

Sounds like someone didn't get taught the difference between right and wrong

I know the difference as I was taught it, but even my morals are subject to interpretation. Where as I seen nothing wrong with being a closet alcoholic, and the governement doesn't seem to mind, my wife does...

So I figure it is the same with homosexuals. I care not what they do behind closed doors, but their mate might.

[MrFun]

Re: Re: Some gays are taught to hate themselves.

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In other news, the sky is blue.

Fine. I don't ever want to hear from you again, about any wrong-doing done by the Bush administration. After all, it's all old news that they are constantly ****ing up our country.


So you see my point? I didn't create this thread because this is new material but rather, to express my opinion about this. We can still express our opinion about things, even if they are not novel topics/issues.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by bfg9000
Nobody can make you hate yourself without your permission.

That's true of any individual of any minority group -- as long as he/she has a healthy dose of self-esteem and self-confidence and able to resist the deragatory, demeaning, social pressure from others.


I don't hate myself as a gay man. But others certainly do.

[Solly]

Fact: England won the World Cup in 1966.

[Solly]

Originally posted by MrFun

I don't hate myself as a gay man. But others certainly do.

What do you do to get hated?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

I have to ask this and not taking anything from a single person that has this issue, but I wonder if the acts or feelings are of hate or just unaccepted. I try to never use hate cause when you hate you are actually imsusilating feelings. So I guess my main question is for all of this is the term hate or unaccpeted the right one?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Asher


I thought Texas killed lefties...

nah in texas they dont care if your a lefty they just hunt ya done for the fun of it to kill ya

[Thorn]

I used to hate myself for being gay.... anger almost made me into the next Hitler... lucky for me I got over it... not lucky for so many others.....

[Az]

Mr. Fun:

But to me, it shouldn't matter if sexual orientation is a choice or not. Even given that sexual orientation is a choice, people are still entitled to the right to form their own identity or to their own conscience.

I fully agree. Now what if these people go on their own will in the belief that it will form their new sexuality, a heterosexual one?

I still argue though, that sexual orientation is not a choice, because no matter how much I examine my own life, my own experiences, and my own sexuality, I have never come to the conclusion that I chose to be gay.

Let's assume for a moment, there is a possibility, through some sort of clockwork orange treatment, to make you straight, or gay, as you wish. If that procedure is available to you, and you chose not to do it, you chose to remain gay. Mind you, nothing terribly wrong with this ( I take issue with the whole "not having kids" part, though - if gays had those it would be identical to me ) - but you still are making a conscious choice.

These people believe that such a procedure exists. Personally, so do I, I am a great believer in the fact that the human brain can be molded into just about anything.

Nothing wrong with the general idea. The only thing that's wrong is the fact that this "faith-based" treatment is probably bull****, and will leave these people deeply disappointed - which means there should government regulation of mindbending facilities - not that such an idea is wrong.


Shawn:

Az - there are probably certain cases that may be true. However, the indications are that you are pretty much hard-wired as an adult as to what turns you on. Does the idea of watching gay porn get a reaction from you as "eww". It has negative appeal for me. There is NO choice in the matter.

I am sure that if I forced myself to mastrubate myself to gay porn enough, I'd be aroused by gay porn. Anyone up to test the theory on himself, and disprove me?

Think about it. KISS - keep it simple stupid. Occam's Razor, for us more hi-falutin types. I cannot become turned on by a morbidly obese female, yet there are men who really are turned on by them. Sexuality (versus fetishes) is very basic, and all indications among those in the mental health field is that it is devilishly difficult, at best, to change adult sexuality.

I disagree - while there are some hard-coded parameters there, I think that maybe even they could be changed. After all, we've seen other basic, even primitive functions, rewired through various methods. Especially since it's not binary, and not even one dimentional.

I agree that we aren't yet in the scientific shape to do this, though.

Plus doing experiments on children to determine the basis, where it develops, etc. pretty much belong to the Mengele school of science, so we are going to be stuck with theories for the most part.

Oh, god no. But there are cases in which we can attempt to study them, that are results of failures of education systems, etc. Like how brain science was pushed forward by the study of head trauma victims.

[Dr Strangelove]

Re: Some gays are taught to hate themselves.

Originally posted by MrFun
I saw this news story on Good Morning America earlier today (Thursday, July 28). Below is the link:

Program for Self-Hatred and Inner Conflict


What comes to my mind when I think of such despicable programs as these, are other historical parallels in where individuals of a minority group are pressured to hate themselves, or be ashamed of part of their identity.


Mulattoes who could almost pass for being white, and who refuse to acknowledge that they are partly black because they fear discrimination and/or they have come to hate "******s" as much as whites do.

Schools in the late nineteenth century and early twentieth century for Amerindian individuals in which coercive attempts were made by white teachers to destroy Amerindian cultural identity.

In the late 1940s, Dr. Kinsey revealed that women enjoyed having sex and that men were not the only gender to enjoy the pleasure of sexual intercourse. Before this public confrontation with what was taboo beforehand, women were often pressured to feel ashamed that they enjoyed having sex, and had to play the role of the "pure, asexual damsel."

And so today, such despicable societal pressure and bigoted norms are heaped upon gays and some of them cave into this pressure and come to believe that there is something wrong with them because they are gay.

Oh heck! In the good old days everyone was taught to hate themselves.

[Dis]

don't forget nerds are taught to hate themselves.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Az
Mr. Fun:


I fully agree. Now what if these people go on their own will in the belief that it will form their new sexuality, a heterosexual one?

They are free to make that choice, but their choice would be seriously flawed based on false hope. They are submitting themselves to psychological deception, lies, and manipulation by participating in this quackery of a program.

Originally posted by Az
Let's assume for a moment, there is a possibility, through some sort of clockwork orange treatment, to make you straight, or gay, as you wish. If that procedure is available to you, and you chose not to do it, you chose to remain gay. Mind you, nothing terribly wrong with this ( I take issue with the whole "not having kids" part, though - if gays had those it would be identical to me ) - but you still are making a conscious choice.

These people believe that such a procedure exists. Personally, so do I, I am a great believer in the fact that the human brain can be molded into just about anything.

What is the point with this hypothetical situation "if I had a chance to change my sexual orientation?"

It would be like asking a black person if, hypothetically, he/she had a chance to change his/her race, would they do it?

I'm not sure what the point is with this hypothetical question.

[Az]

They are free to make that choice, but their choice would be seriously flawed based on false hope. They are submitting themselves to psychological deception, lies, and manipulation by participating in this quackery of a program.

Yes. What's your point?

What is the point with this hypothetical situation "if I had a chance to change my sexual orientation?"

It would be like asking a black person if, hypothetically, he/she had a chance to change his/her race, would they do it?

I'm not sure what the point is with this hypothetical question.

Since your example will probably be availble in the next 50 years, I say that these hypotheticals are something we better ponder on now, before we get surprised by them.