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Did these French pedophile parents get a proper sentence?

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  • Did these French pedophile parents get a proper sentence?

    Instant Poly verdict, please. Franck and Patricia got 18 years in jail apiece. Is this sentence too short, about right, or too long?

    The allegations are bolded.

    Child abuse gang horrifies France
    By Sarah Shenker
    BBC News

    France has been shocked by the scale of abuse revealed at the Angers paedophile trial, where 65 adults were accused of sexually abusing 45 children.

    It was the biggest criminal trial in recent French history.

    The abused were aged from six months to 14 years, and some of them were prostituted and raped by their own parents and grandparents, in a poor district of the town in western France.

    Sometimes they were offered to strangers in return for small amounts of money, food, alcohol or cigarettes.

    The accused were mostly from deprived backgrounds and many of them were unemployed and had learning difficulties. Some were illiterate and appeared not to fully understand the charges they faced, defence lawyers said.

    A number said they had been sexually abused themselves as children.

    "These were people in difficulty, excluded from normal society, who found each other. And for them, everything was sexualised," said Brigitte Chirat, who covered the case for the local newspaper Le Courrier de l'Ouest.

    Paedophile ring

    At the trial - lasting more than four months and involving about 60 lawyers and 150 witnesses - a prosecutor described how some of the men would call each other and suggest "going for a coffee" as code for visiting one of the homes where the rapes and abuse would take place.

    The videotaped testimony of the children provided most of the horrific details of abuse, which took place between 1999 and 2002.

    At the centre of the paedophile ring were Franck, 36, and his former wife Patricia, 32, both sentenced to more than 15 years in prison. Their full names cannot be given so as to preserve the anonymity of the victims.

    The charges stated that for years, Franck and his father Philippe, now 59, and two dozen others raped Franck's daughter Marine, aged seven at the time of the first attack.

    Franck and Patricia prostituted Marine, her younger sister and their little brother. Another half-dozen children were abused in their home, on about 100 different occasions.


    Philippe was sentenced to 28 years in prison.

    "These were families with serious paedophile behaviour," prosecution spokesman Herve Lollic said.

    Another of the alleged key players in the ring, identified as Eric, was described as an "ogre" and known to the children as "the fatty". He was found guilty of raping or abusing more than 10 children.

    Eric's brother Jean-Marc was also found guilty of abuse.

    Late intervention

    As each of the defendants testified, a picture emerged of a cluster of three families in which adults abused each other's children, often in the same room.

    Courtroom in Angers
    A special courtroom was built to accommodate the trial

    "As one expert at the trial said, these were people who were unable to manage their sexual impulses. And nobody told them these things shouldn't be done, " Ms Chirat told the BBC News website.

    One question which remains unanswered is why it took so long for the authorities to become aware of the abuse.

    A defence lawyer pointed out that 21 of the 23 families involved in the case had been monitored by French social workers. The first report of abuse was in 1999, but the investigation only began in earnest in 2002.

    A spokesman for the president of the Maine et Loire regional council said social services were not to blame.

    "We are not auxiliaries for the police," he said, pointing out that no charges had been laid against any social workers. "But obviously, in a case like this, we will reflect on how we can improve our work."

    Demand for rethink

    Ms Chirat said the child protection system failed and should be reviewed. For example, social workers used to always call ahead before making visits, she said.

    The police should also review how it deals with ex-offenders once they are released, she added.

    Three of those on trial had a previous conviction for child abuse, and were supposed to be under some kind of supervision.

    Herve Lollic said he believed France now took the tragedy of paedophilia seriously, but that efforts still needed to be made to tackle the problem.

    "Little by little police and magistrates have recognised the issue and looked at it differently. But I fear that these things do not just happen in Angers," he said.
    33
    The 18-year sentence was too long
    3.03%
    1
    The 18-year sentence sounds about right
    24.24%
    8
    The 18-year sentence was too short
    72.73%
    24
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    GAS THEM
    I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.

    Asher on molly bloom

    Comment


    • #3
      Bubba should be given some new friends
      Safer worlds through superior firepower

      Comment


      • #4
        This is rather close to my heart because my ex-wife had a similar thing happen to her (abuse from the age of 18 months until she was 11, culminating with her being 'hired out' for a weekend to a dozen men).
        In her case the abuse was carried out by a babysitter (from 18 months to 3 years) and her maternal grandfather (from 5 to 11 years) - I think that what she said about her mothers reaction to all this that her mother was also regularly abused as a child as well.

        This sort of abuse tends to serious undermine the mental stability of the children when they become adults and I note that the sentence for the Grandfather - 28 years - is much higher than the ones for the parents.

        I think that, from the limited information above, the sentances are about right.
        19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

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        • #5
          I read no further than this:

          65 adults were accused of sexually abusing 45 children.
          and determined the sentence was too short.

          I would make a good juror. I don't need all the facts. Just give me one striking detail such as that, that's all I need to determine how guilty they are.

          Comment


          • #6
            This is perhaps the most horrific story I have ever read.

            A father raping his own 7 year old daughter? And allowing others to do the same? Nothing less than the death sentences is appropiate punishment.

            And I don't want to say something insensitive in light of such a tragic story, but it needs to be said. It has been suggested that america's prudish attitudes towards sex is breeding paedophiles. Obviously this is not the case. As France is not a prudish country like the U.S. Europeans need to wake up to the child abuse problem in their countries. It amazes me the social service workers defending their actions in this story. 3 years to start an investigation? Outrageous.

            Comment


            • #7
              The accused were mostly from deprived backgrounds and many of them were unemployed and had learning difficulties. Some were illiterate and appeared not to fully understand the charges they faced, defence lawyers said.

              A number said they had been sexually abused themselves as children.

              "These were people in difficulty, excluded from normal society, who found each other. And for them, everything was sexualised," said Brigitte Chirat, who covered the case for the local newspaper Le Courrier de l'Ouest.

              Sounds like she's trying to romanticize their "plight."

              "...then, from across the room, their eyes met."
              "Hey big fella! You want my daughter? She's a virgin. I'd whore myself for cigarettes but I figured it's easier to turn her out."

              I have a sense that French prisons aren't the toughest place to do time. Maybe 18 years is enough, maybe not.
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              • #8
                On the one hand, it's about right.

                On the other hand, I don't really believe there exists such a thing as a right jail sentence, or at least it exists very rarely. To me, it's comparing apples and oranges. I believe that, when possible, the sentence should be something to undo the crime as completely as possible - returning stolen stuff, etc. However, jailtime served by rapists or similar criminals really don't undo the crimes. I don't feel it's possible to translate offenses such as this into years in jail. I prefer to compare it to how you can not translate kilograms into seconds or angstrems into decibels. It's just absolutely different things.
                Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

                Comment


                • #9
                  You should really add a banana option to your poll. They judges and jury spent 4 months and a half in trial and 9 full days enclosed to deliberate, decide on culpability and what amount of jail should be done for whom. Maybe we can't know every fact exactly. I don't think we can voice a correct opinion here.
                  That said, I think people who do that kind of things should be permanently banned from society.
                  Solver, what do you propose when a crime cannot be undone? Particularly knowing that people committing sexual crimes tend to repeat them unless restrained.
                  Clash of Civilization team member
                  (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                  web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                  • #10
                    Solver, what do you propose when a crime cannot be undone? Particularly knowing that people committing sexual crimes tend to repeat them unless restrained.


                    I do not have a better proposal - in sexual crimes, jail serves the useful and neccessary function of isolating the criminal from commiting more crimes.

                    In a perfect world, we could know if a person truly regrets his crime and will never commit a crime again, and set him free. Then again, in a perfect world we wouldn't have crimes in the first place.
                    Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                    Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                    I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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                    • #11
                      In a perfect world, we could know if a person truly regrets his crime and will never commit a crime again
                      People often do things they know they will regret. For instance, eating too much. See that nice chocolate bar? You shouldn't eat it. But it looks so good... You did that in the past and sincerely regretted doing it (particularly since you no longer fit in your trousers) but won't you do it again? I'm unsure sexual perverts would be able to resist their urges, even if they wanted to.
                      The jury had to answer to more 1974 questions, (like: is XXX guilty of doing this, is it aggravated by that, is there a circumstance that bla bla bla...). The guilty people should certainly go in jail for an additional 5 months in order to relieve the poor guys of the jury who were unable to go to work during 4 months and a half, and were effectively jailed for 9 days when issuing the sentence.
                      Clash of Civilization team member
                      (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                      web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                      • #12
                        lifetime with bubba

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                        • #13
                          I think consecutive sentences should be used a bit more.
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                          • #14
                            Dis, oh come one! There's been like a hundred pedophile threads and you still spell it paedophile? COme on! PEDOPHILE. EASY!
                            In da butt.
                            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
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                            • #15
                              Is he criticising your Finnish, Pekka?
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