"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents" part II

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
The "facts" in the immediate aftermath were such that only morons would have condemned the shooting. Had he vaulted the barrier, had he run, had he being in a heavy coat that could give doubt to what he had underneath...he had to be shot.

Actually only a moron would have concluded he had to be shot purely for those reasons...

This whole sorry episode has shown quite clearly how using lethal force against a 'terrorist suspect' (read: innocent man) was frighteningly easily accepted by the gullible right wing conservatives on this site...

No wonder Bush brainwashed you into invading Iraq on the pretext of WMD...

C'mon people, anyone with at least half a brain should have been suspicious of the events surrounding this tragedy! You could tell something was wrong - some of us even pointed out the catalogue of inconsistencies using the information we were given at the time and questioned them on this site, but instead the gullible types on this forum sucked it all up like a dyson on acid...

The thing that really scares me the most is that the staggering incompetence of the police and its top brass far outsurpassed even my worst dreams!

You guys must feel really depressed being wrong all the time, I think you right wing people seriously have to ask yourselves a question - are you smarter than Bush or Quayle...?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Nope. While Britain has produced some culture during the 19th century (and much less so than Germany or France), the thing that made English into the international language, and English-speaking culture the "default" one in the world, is the domination of the US on the west and its huge pop-culture machine.

Someone needs to read up on the history of English Literature in the 19th Century.

Not to mention the influence of Turner and Constable on French painting, and the influence of the Arts and Crafts movement and British Socialism and trade unionism.

What made English into an international language were trade and missionaries- the missionaries' tools being 'The Book of Common Prayer' and the 'Authorized King James Version' of the Bible.

[Solly]

If there was a 20% chance this man was a terrorist, he ought to have been shot, as he would have killed more than 5 had he been a terrorist.

Utilitarianism.

[binTravkin]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
The "facts" in the immediate aftermath were such that only morons would have condemned the shooting. Had he vaulted the barrier, had he run, had he being in a heavy coat that could give doubt to what he had underneath...he had to be shot.

Next time you'll try to hide your beer-stomach under a heavy coat and start running away in shame when a little kid says "look, mom, that uncle has SUCH a big stomach!" I'll shoot you.

I think you'll be satisfied.
At least one more terrorist dead.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
If there was a 20% chance this man was a terrorist, he ought to have been shot, as he would have killed more than 5 had he been a terrorist.

Utilitarianism.

No stupidism.

It is quite clear the man they shot had no connection with terrorrism not even a little bit. having said that in the atmosphere following the bombings i can just about see why the police suspected him, they were wrong to do so but you can see why( again the reason the reason to suspect him was wrong but the armed police in the station have to beleive what they are told). However shooting him when they had chance to apprehebd him was wrong.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by TheStinger
No stupidism.

From Nimrod Avenue?

[chequita guevara]

If the information the police released originally was true, then under the existing circumstances they were fully justified in shooting the fleeing man. If it wasn't true, they weren't.

I don't think anyone on this site would accuse me of being soft on the police. If the police had been telling the truth and I had been in their situation, I would have no problems shooting the fleeing man and trying to kill him. Since it appears they were lying through their teeth, I think they should be strung up by their balls.

edit: spell and layout fix

[Asher]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If the information the police released originally was true, then under the existing circumstances they were fully justified in shooting the fleeing man. If it wasn't true, they weren't. I don't think anyone on this site would accurese me of being soft on the police. If the police had been telling the truth and I had been in their situation, I would have no problems shooting the fleeing man and trying to kill him. Since it appears they were lying through their teeth, I think they should be strung up by their balls.

[chequita guevara]

Let me be more specific. I think the police are dangerous and frequently abuse their authority, are corrupt, and don't really care enough to get the right criminals in far too many cases (though not in the majority). On top of that, even good cops are far too willing to overlook bad or corrupt police behavior. That said, I'm glad they exist because they protect us from those who are much worse than they are. I'm not one of those people who thinks cops are better than everyone else and thinks they should be accorded special respect because they are out there putting their lives between us and criminals.

But if I saw a guy come out of a suspected bomb-making site, in a heavy coat, on a hot day, who fled into a subway car when I identified myself as an armed police officer, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot, not even into a crowd. The possibility I kill on or two innocent bystanders while trying to stop an immediate threat of murder to a larger group of those same innocent bystanders wouldn't make me hesitate. If I hesitated and he exploded, all those people I didn't save would be on my head.

Asher and I rarely agree on anything. He was totally correct in this thread.

[Berzerker]

I heard recently most of the story offered by the authorities is bogus, he was supposedly running to catch a train and wasn't wearing a heavy coat or doing anything out of the ordinary. He was killed because of how he looked...I doubt this would have happened had he been a white Scandinavian dude. Imagine being tackled by cops and shot in the head 5 times at point blank range because you were late for a train.

[Alexander's Horse]

has this news only just reached the USA?

I swear your media is self censoring.

[Berzerker]

Our media resources are tied up in Aruba

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I swear your media is self censoring.

You act like this is some kind of revalation. Our media is worse than th Soviets' was.

[Alexander's Horse]

its not for me - but you do often find that US posters argue stuff because they have no idea what the media outside the US has revealed

A friend of mine was recently in the Green Zone in quite a senior position. I asked him what it was like. He said it was nice and peaceful but they had no idea what was going on outside.

[chequita guevara]

You can find out stuff going on in the world in our papers, but you have to read page 34 at the bottom under an ad, and it's usually only a paragraph.

The funny thing is so many conservative posters here claim that if something really was true, the media would cover it, but then dismiss foreign media as well as alternative media here in the U.S.

FOX is openly right-wing propaganda, but most mean stream sources are too afraid too rock the boat. If they piss off the powers that be, they lose their precious access to politicians, plus it can cost them advertising dollars. They self-censor because they are chicken-****s.