Womende Pengyou, Mr. Mugabe

[Adam Smith]

Mugabe signs aid deal with China

Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe has signed a deal with his Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao in Beijing.

The details have not been made public but China was expected to seek mineral and other trade concessions in exchange for economic help. .....

China has promised to help Zimbabwe and to not interfere in "internal affairs".

China "trusts Zimbabwe's government and people have the ability to deal properly with their own matters", a foreign ministry statement said. ....

The ties between China and Mr Mugabe date back to the 1970s war of independence, when fighters from his Zanu party were armed by the Chinese.

After being accused of rigging elections and oppressing the opposition, Mr Mugabe is subject to a travel ban in the European Union and the United States.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4713961.stm

Yet another in a string of Chinese trade and development agreements with represive regimes such as

SUDAN
IRAN
MYANMAR
NORTH KOREA

To what extent are diplomatic and economic sanctions effective if one major player refuses to participate?

To what degree can major economic powers be encouraged to support sanctions?

Is there some other, better alternative?

[pchang]

Not to worry

In 20 to 50 years, all these deals will bite China in the ass.

[DanS]

pchang has a good point. China had all sorts of energy deals with Saddam, as I recall. Didn't do them any good once the slate was wiped clean.

[Agathon]

As if western corporations don't do the same thing.

Lame troll.

But watch out, those evil yellow fiends are going to open up opium dens and sell our women into prostitution!!!!!!!

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Agathon
But watch out, those evil yellow fiends are going to open up opium dens and sell our women into prostitution!!!!!!!

Cool.

When?

[DinoDoc]

Hello UR.

[Agathon]

UR as an opium den proprietor somehow just doesn't fit.

[Adam Smith]

DanS:
I specifically left Iraq, Cuba, and Veneuela off the list, as there may be policy / perception differences between the US and Europe, Japan, etc. regarding these countires. I know of no such differences between the US and Europe, Japan, etc regarding the countries I mentioned.

Originally posted by Agathon
As if western corporations don't do the same thing.

Link please? Any examples of US corporations would especially help your case.

Originally posted by Agathon
Lame troll.

Legitimate questions. Care to answer?

Originally posted by Agathon
But watch out, those evil yellow fiends are going to open up opium dens and sell our women into prostitution!!!!!!!

If you knew anything about me you would realize exactly how stupid that comment is.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Agathon
As if western corporations don't do the same thing.

Lame troll.

But watch out, those evil yellow fiends are going to open up opium dens and sell our women into prostitution!!!!!!!

That's sort of pchang's point. The US has done the same thing and look what is happening to it now. I find it strange that you are so quick to condemn "western corporations" for it, but when China is criticized for the same action you always (yes, always) hide behind the "China is teh evil" response. Which, btw, I have yet to see any real base for this other than something you made up and are trying to propagate. So why the double standard?

[DanS]

AS: Even controlling for those areas where there may be some disagreement, I think pchang's point is still valid. China does a deal with the Sudanese government, but do we really think that China will be able to collect on that investment in the end?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DaShi


That's sort of pchang's point. The US has done the same thing and look what is happening to it now. I find it strange that you are so quick to condemn "western corporations" for it, but when China is criticized for the same action you always (yes, always) hide behind the "China is teh evil" response. Which, btw, I have yet to see any real base for this other than something you made up and are trying to propagate. So why the double standard?

Given that I'm a wild eyed communist who advocates the overthrow of all governments, I fail to see any inconsistency.

I think it sucks that people have anything to do with Mugabe the scumbag, but at least the Chinese aren't hypocrites. I expect better from our lot, the same way I expect Israel to conform to a higher standard of behaviour than its opponents. We're democracies, we are supposed to do better.

[Ecthy]

Hu Jintao shi wo de hen hao pengyou

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Agathon


Given that I'm a wild eyed communist who advocates the overthrow of all governments, I fail to see any inconsistency.

I think it sucks that people have anything to do with Mugabe the scumbag, but at least the Chinese aren't hypocrites. I expect better from our lot, the same way I expect Israel to conform to a higher standard of behaviour than its opponents. We're democracies, we are supposed to do better.

That's where we differ. I expect better from everyone.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

the problem is that when youve got countries like china signing treaties with dictators, it reduces the incentive for the dictators to change their style.

[Adam Smith]

Originally posted by DanS
Even controlling for those areas where there may be some disagreement, I think pchang's point is still valid. China does a deal with the Sudanese government, but do we really think that China will be able to collect on that investment in the end?

China may not fully collect on their investment, and they may lose political capital in doing so. I am sure the Chinese have taken both factors into account in making their decisions. But given that, how do you bring about change if the Chinese (or anybody else for that matter) are willing to make deals with the current regime?