Indians go potty over textbooks

[Frozzy]

'Nazi' row over Indian textbooks
Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi
Gujarat is led by Chief Minister Hindu nationalist Narendra Modi
Human rights campaigners in India's Gujarat state have condemned school textbooks which they say praise Hitler.

The books are issued by the Hindu nationalist state government. One includes a chapter on the "internal achievements of Nazism".

A Jesuit priest and social activist, Cedric Prakash, says the books contain more than 300 factual errors and make little mention of the holocaust.

The Gujarat government has dismissed the charges as baseless.

A senior official from the state education department told the BBC that anomalies arose when the book was translated from Gujarati into English, and are being quoted out of context.

Troubled state

The books, used to teach students aged 13 to 15, were introduced last year and have been reissued for the current school year.

Father Prakash told AFP news agency: "We first researched the textbooks in 2004 and pointed out some glaringly distorted historical facts to the state education board.

"Despite protests from parents, peace activists and educationists, the updated school books still contain the same objectionable text this academic year."

He said it was time to take the matter to court.

In the chapter entitled "Internal achievements of Nazism," one textbook quoted by AFP states: "Hitler lent dignity and prestige to the German government within a short time, establishing a strong administrative set-up."

Communal feelings run high in Gujarat - once the adopted home of Mahatma Gandhi.

Religious riots in 2002 officially killed more than 1,000 people, most of them Muslims. Human rights groups place the figure much higher.

Hmmm...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711475.stm

In the chapter entitled "Internal achievements of Nazism," one textbook quoted by AFP states: "Hitler lent dignity and prestige to the German government within a short time, establishing a strong administrative set-up."

What's the problem with this? The 1930s German leadership had more prestige and German self confidence was higher than the Weimar Republic had ever achieved by a country mile.

Has it got to the stage where it's impossible to be historically objective about the Nazi regime? Any objective historian will admit the Nazi leadership before 1939 turned Germany into a highly efficient and powerful economy, but it seems we can't mention an objective word about the regime internally without 1000 caveats.

It's a bit hard to see how making "Nazi = bad, no matter what it is" a fact and expecting people to understand "Germany brought Europe to its knees in 2 years".

[:) Smiley]

The truth hurts often, but thats why it needs to be taught.

[mrmitchell]

make little mention of the holocaust.

Frozzy you're mostly right, but a more appropriate book would include the most important parts of his regime:

* the holocaust
* war with the soviets
* mistreatment of all his neighboring nations
* racism in the nazi regime

[OzzyKP]

We'd have to see the whole chapter to really decide whether it is biased or not. If there was an accompanying chapter on the holocaust and such, and then students were challenged to reconcile the two then that'd be much different than a chapter on the positive accomplishments of Nazi Germany (even if all true), and only token mention of the regime's crimes.

[BeBMan]

Yeah, and "establishing a strong administrative set-up" sounds rather euphemistic. A word on his methods shouldn't be too much.....

[Last Conformist]

Any objective historian will admit the Nazi leadership before 1939 turned Germany into a highly efficient and powerful economy

Really? I'm not particularly into economic history, but those accounts I've read have stressed the inefficient "command" aspects of the Nazi economy. That Germany seemed rich in the '30s was mostly due to everyone else doing badly at the time.

[Dr Strangelove]

Well, Nazi does = bad! I don't think that Germany had more prestige under Hitler, at least not outside Germany. Many people around the world were not fooled by Hitler. Furthermore much of Nazi germany's economic "miracle" was a sham. They took the wealth of a moderately well off 10% segment of the population, the Jews, and redistributed it to the less well off or used it to fund work projects to jack up their economic stats, but wrote off the people they plundered (except when figuring the census) as if they didn't exist.

[Frozzy]

Frozzy you're mostly right, but a more appropriate book would include the most important parts of his regime:

* the holocaust
* war with the soviets
* mistreatment of all his neighboring nations
* racism in the nazi regime

Oh sure. I just think somebody basing an argument for banning the books because it mentions internal achievements of Nazism (which there were) is being rather hypocritical if s/he arguing for more objective history.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove They took the wealth of a moderately well off 10% segment of the population, the Jews, and redistributed it to the less well off or used it to fund work projects to jack up their economic stats, but wrote off the people they plundered (except when figuring the census) as if they didn't exist.

Sounds like what Europe has been doing ever since.

[Datajack Franit]

Really? I'm not particularly into economic history, but those accounts I've read have stressed the inefficient "command" aspects of the Nazi economy. That Germany seemed rich in the '30s was mostly due to everyone else doing badly at the time.

False. You must point that Germany managed to recovery from the world economic crisis triggered by Wall Street market crash at record time, considering the post-1st WW war damage conditions.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit


False. You must point that Germany managed to recovery from the world economic crisis triggered by Wall Street market crash at record time, considering the post-1st WW war damage conditions.

Chiefly by public works and military spending.

If you want to convince me that the Nazi economy was very efficient, please point to literature making the case.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Well, Nazi does = bad! I don't think that Germany had more prestige under Hitler, at least not outside Germany. Many people around the world were not fooled by Hitler. Furthermore much of Nazi germany's economic "miracle" was a sham. They took the wealth of a moderately well off 10% segment of the population, the Jews, and redistributed it to the less well off or used it to fund work projects to jack up their economic stats, but wrote off the people they plundered (except when figuring the census) as if they didn't exist.

[Frozzy]

Well that's economic sense. If you're a govenment, to get out of a depression you need to spend on infrastructure and create jobs.

EDIT: X-Post with Odin

[Datajack Franit]

If you want to convince me that the Nazi economy was very efficient, please point to literature making the case.

Just don't ask me this at 5.50AM

[Dr Strangelove]

You take the jobs of 10% of the nation, give them to another 10%, then write off the victims as if they didn;t exist and voila you're about half-way towards full employment. You get the rest of the way there by forcing some workers work fewer hours in order to make jobs for the unemployed. This is not a miracle, it's cheating, something that Hitler was never above doing.

I might also point out that in the US the Supreme Court would not allow FDR's administration to count people enrolled in the work programs such as the CCC and ther WPA as being employed. When those programs were at their peak the US unemployment rate, counting people enrolled in work programs, was actually one third less than the listed rate