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Shanty town demolitions

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  • #1

    Shanty town demolitions

    When Winston was over here visiting a couple of weeks ago, he, timexwatch, and I talked a little bit about shanty towns being torn down. This seems timely, given that the UN has just condemned Zimbabwe's program of tearing down shanty towns and its enforcement of rules against urban gardens (we were drinking a Zimbabwean beer at the time we discussed all of this stuff -- see the Washington Polymeet thread for pics).

    Taking into account Zimbabwe's current state of affairs, especially with regard to famine, it seems crazy in a Pol Pot sort of way for the government to worry about shanty towns and urban gardens. However, are there circumstances where shanty towns should be demolished? It seems to me that allowing shanty towns to exist does nobody any good, least of all the inhabitants of the shanty towns. You have the public health issues. And then you have the fact that most of these shantys are on land that isn't theirs.

    I know that Washington has demolished shanty towns at times in the past. And of course, there was the time during the Great Depression where the World War I veterans were evicted rather forcefully by the army from their shantys/protest headquarters.

    Winston talked a little bit about a Danish commune that squatted on government land that has been tolerated by the government for a while. Eventually, the criminals took over and now the government is a little less sympathetic.

    You could even argue that gentrification and redevlopment is in many respects just a form of tearing down shanty towns. Gentrification and redevelopment are processes that I support wholeheartedly. Winston thought it made sense for the government to help find shelter for the displaced people. I expressed the opinion that as adults they could take care of themselves and the government shouldn't be overly worried about the displaced.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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  • #2
    So, basically, because shantytowns are filled with crime, let's destroy shnatytowns. That way the poor that live in these shantys will be less protected from the elements and the criminals.

    How about doing something to get the people out of the shanties and able to live somewhere else.

    ACK!
    Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

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    • #3
      The poor that live in these shantys will find other accomodations. Some better. Some worse. On balance, I expect these people to find better accomodations. But in no event would the shanty town status quo be accepted.

      This line of argument would assume that the cause of shanty towns is in many respects inertia. Societal inertia. Individual inertia.

      You could say that we have examples of this today. We have been tearing down 60s'-era public housing projects for a couple of decades.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DanS
        The poor that live in these shantys will find other accomodations. Some better. Some worse. On balance, I expect these people to find better accomodations. But in no event would the shanty town status quo be accepted.
        Better?

        If they could find better, why would they live in shanties?

        DanS'ed.

        ACK!
        Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

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        • #5
          If they could find better, why would they live in shanties?
          Many people accept bad situations all the time when they should expect better. They just don't know any better. It's inertia.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DanS
            This line of argument would assume that the cause of shanty towns is in many respects inertia. Societal inertia. Individual inertia.
            Individual inertia is one thing. People want to have to change.

            Societal inertia? Let's destroy people's homes to make them get better housing.

            ACK!
            Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

            Comment

            • #7
              Let's destroy people's homes to make them get better housing.
              I assume that you think this a crude tool. I agree, but perhaps it is effective, if a little coercive.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DanS


                Many people accept bad situations all the time when they should expect better. They just don't know any better. It's inertia.
                Sounds like a societal problem to me.

                They should expect better, but life has taught them otherwise. Life has taught them that society doesn't give a damn.

                ACK!
                Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Rather, with regard to societal inertia, I was referring to ghettoization. The shanty towns are out of sight out of mind to society. You see this in the Southeast quadrant of Washington, for instance.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                  • #10
                    They should expect better, but life has taught them otherwise. Life has taught them that society doesn't give a damn.
                    Apparently, I am much more cynical than you are. In my hometown area of backwoods appalachian Ohio there are just a lot of willfully ignorant people. They don't live in cities, so there aren't the big crime problems, however, besides MJ and some meth labs. They live in their rural shanties in peace, collecting whatever society will give them (sometimes a lot, sometimes not much). Almost all live in apalling conditions.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DanS


                      Apparently, I am much more cynical than you are. In my hometown area of backwoods appalachian Ohio there are just a lot of willfully ignorant people. They don't live in cities, so there aren't the big crime problems, however, besides MJ and some meth labs. They live in their rural shanties in peace, collecting whatever society will give them (sometimes a lot, sometimes not much).
                      You aren't more cynical than I am, we are just cynical about different things.

                      ACK!
                      Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        OK, well apparently I am more cynical about personal inertia than you are. People will live in right awful conditions when a second of bubbling sentience would make clear to them that they could have better. I don't know why this is. I mark it up to the human condition.
                        Last edited by DanS; July 22, 2005, 14:03.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          The reason people move into shanties is because there isn't enough housing that they can afford. Tearing down shanties without a replacement will only lead to an increase in homelessness.
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                          • #14
                            I agree, but it's not as simple as that statement makes it appear. People could double up in non-shanty living conditions, for instance. This is done in our society all the time -- especially effective for immigrants. Also, shanty towns just seem to mestasticize. Nobody is making any money off of these shanty inhabitants, so the potential builders of proper housing don't build anything to accomodate these folks.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                            • #15
                              In Brazil the Favela's (shanty towns) aorund the mayor Cities have developed themselves into towns and such, theough they are still crime ridden and not served by most common public services like water mains.

                              Favela - Wikipedia
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela
                              If you don't like reality, change it! me
                              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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