just. plain. STUPID.

[Theben]

...and kaak got table that set you **** straight

Except Kaak's tables are meaningless. Basically you're comparing the best students in Europe and elsewhere with the average american student. Of course americans will perform worse. However, when compared to specialized u.s. schools, the equivalent of European gymnasiums, americans perform as well or even better than theit European and Japanese counterparts.
The data wrt U.S, universities vs. foreign unis is just as skewed, due to different methods of instruction. FE, Japanese take rigorous testing to get into college and few are accepted, once in the students do very little work compared to americans. Americans are enrolled with much more lax standards but will receive a lot more homework, assignments, and testing. Weeding out is done in the 1st 2 1/2 years of college. By the time both graduate they will be approximately on par, while the results of those seeking even higher education will favor americans.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

As for black history and the like, the very idea is crap. If normal history education is one-sided or unbalanced, the solution is to rectify that, not teaching additional one-sided and unbalanced versions of history.

I'm sorry but you're painfully wrong. The point is to teach specialized history, not lopsided. There's way too much information out there that is considered 'historical' to fit into any one class. Personally I feel it's too generalized already. If I was a teacher I'd cram the stupid **** that the kids need for the memory testing in the 1st part of the semester and then spend the rest of it on a very short but thoroughly descriptive span of time, around some subjects that the students chose.

[DRoseDARs]

I haven't read the past few pages, but I'm suprised JCC is still trying to play his racism card. The black friends I've had would probably beg to differ in his calling me a racist...

[Kaak]

Theben...you didn't even check the link did you? tisk tisk...maybe you should make sure you know what you are talking about next time

PISA assesses how far students near the end of compulsory education have acquired some of the knowledge and skills that are essential for full participation in society. In all cycles, the domains of reading, mathematical and scientific literacy are covered not merely in terms of mastery of the school curriculum, but in terms of important knowledge and skills needed in adult life.
In the PISA 2003 cycle, an additional domain of problem solving was introduced to continue the examination of cross-curriculum competencies.

The survey wasn't done by an american organization, and was no way centered or focused on americans. it was a broad survey of many countries, unbiased, not trying to prove anything

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Theben


Except Kaak's tables are meaningless. Basically you're comparing the best students in Europe and elsewhere with the average american student. Of course americans will perform worse. However, when compared to specialized u.s. schools, the equivalent of European gymnasiums, americans perform as well or even better than theit European and Japanese counterparts.

Gymnasia are not necessarily elitist. In Sweden, over 90% go to one, and we still outproform American HSers on most measures.

[Theben]

Oh NOES!!1! The "I have black friends" card has been dealt!11!\1!! Run away!!

/me runs away

[Kaak]

Specialized history courses, other than maybe general american history, should not be taught in compulsory education. In the university setting, sure, but it is far more important to have an understanding of world history and national history than to have a class focused on the history of ANY subset of the population.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

Gymnasia are not necessarily elitist. In Sweden, over 90% go to one, and we still outproform American HSers on most measures.

90% of all HSers or 90% of all children of HS age?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
I haven't read the past few pages, but I'm suprised JCC is still trying to play his racism card. The black friends I've had would probably beg to differ in his calling me a racist...

I'm sorry, but everybody who plays the "I've got [insert minority] friends" card automatically loses. JCC is hereby pwned you.

[DRoseDARs]

I really love it when people try to play their personal Minority card against me. Gay Minority beats all other minority cards except for the Fat Card (though, the majority of USAmericans are at least somewhat overweight).

[Kaak]

LC: on every measure that was measured

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Theben


90% of all HSers or 90% of all children of HS age?

Over 90% of children of HS age.

[Kaak]

and theben, if the majority of the european population goes to better schools, that kinda proves my point don't you think??? thank you.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Kaak
Specialized history courses, other than maybe general american history, should not be taught in compulsory education. In the university setting, sure, but it is far more important to have an understanding of world history and national history than to have a class focused on the history of ANY subset of the population.

Except that most students don't leave understanding history at all. They at best leave with a set of useless facts of what happened when, w/o understanding WHY or all the factors involved. At worst they leave w/o learning anything.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
I'm sorry, but everybody who plays the "I've got [insert minority] friends" card automatically loses. JCC is hereby pwned you.

But he keeps talking like we're all whitebread honkies who's only exposure to black people is through television and maple syrup bottles. Where's the pwnage?