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  • Random Game Design Question

    so...I'm sitting here, heavily medicated, and home tonight, rather than with my gal (we were supposed to go to the beach to visit her mom, but I found myself in another bang up car accident--for the second time this year, not my fault...just born lucky I suppose), so I'm home nursing my bruises with meds and two heating pads, and I'm fiddling with game design.

    Been thinking about Civ, and how the tech tree is so linear.

    Everybody knows that tech x gives benefit y, and that's cool, I guess. It's one of the central concepts OF 4x games, actually, so to get completely away from it might alienate large numbers of players.

    But...what if we took half a step away from it?

    What if, in addition to the predictable "research-this-gain-that" stuff, a new tech *also* gave you a random, or semi-random bonus?

    I say "semi-random" becuase of course, it would not be entirely random. It's not like you could research a diplomatically oriented tech and suddenly gain the next thing in killing machinery...the bonuses would have something to do, topically, with the general bent of the tech you just researched, but....I think there should be some choice. Some menu of varying interpretation about what the tech you just researched really MEANS to you and yours, and how it will be applied.

    For example...to use Candle'Bre as an example, since I live and breathe to tinker with the various models I've got going for it.

    At military tech five, there's a tech called siegecraft, which makes siege engines available for building.

    Well and good. There's a certain logical cohesion to that, and it makes intuitive sense.

    But what if, in addition to that, a player were presented with something like this:

    Milord, having gained an advance in military sciences, it is your perogative to guide us in the practical application of our newfound abilities
    (choose one)

    * Siege Engines were made for laying siege! Focus all efforts on maximizing their impact! (gain a +1 bonus to any and all siege checks your faction makes for the remainder of the game)

    * Such advances help us to better understand our own weaknesses, and we should use this knowledge to shore up those weaknesses as best we can (all provinces you control gain +1 siege counter til the end of the game. Any provinces you acquire AFTER receipt of this bonus immediately gain +1 Siege counter as well)

    * We have, in our posession, the means and knowlege to more efficiently organize the army for extended campaigns. Let us focus our efforts there (better supply coordination reduces the maintenance costs of all your forces by 0.1g per unit, til the end of the game.

    Further, the selections you make on any given level of advance could be used to inform the future choices made available to you as you advance further. Sort of...techs and abilities within techs and abilities, and it'd allow each player to customize the game around whatever strategy he/she was pursuing.

    Anyway, I was just toying with it, and it sounded like a great deal of fun, so I figured I'd get some other opinions...

    -=Vel=-
    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

  • #2
    Sounds good.
    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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    • #3
      Wrong forum
      You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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      • #4
        Nahhh, right forum....I wanted to get some responses this month, and the alt civ forum is deadsville...plus, since this doesn't directly apply to CB (yet), I didn't wanna bring it up there...

        -=Vel=-
        The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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        • #5
          OH! Just had another interesting thought....we could either make it such that it was predictable...ie., every tech advance, you KNOW you're getting a choice, or make that random too...sure, you'll get the "defacto" benefit of each given tech, but you may or may not gain any "extra" boon....or would that perhaps be pushing the randomness a shade too far?

          -=Vel=-
          The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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          • #6
            Don't make it a choice, don't make it random.

            Do tie it to other game decisions. For example: Build lots of irrigation, understanding of hydraulics leads to better ships. Or, researching military technologies while at war gives you some of the enemy's knowhow.
            Visit First Cultural Industries
            There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
            Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd

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            • #7
              So, like MOO2 then?
              (edit: responding to original post, not followups)
              "In the beginning was the Word. Then came the ******* word processor." -Dan Simmons, Hyperion

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              • #8
                Mmm...so you're saying introduce an in-game feeder system...an invisible point tracking scheme that keeps track of HOW a player is playing, and then reinforcing that play style by offering choices in line with it.

                Interesting, but won't be immediately doable. I think that will surely be the direction to head in, but in order for it to work, all the sub-systems would have to be in place, and robust enough to support themselves. Not something I could just "poof!" create in a weekend, but yes...I like that as an end point!

                -=Vel=-
                The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello Vel, nice to see you...

                  Well, randomness is always interesting, yes, because there is a fine line that is hard to see and harder yet draw...

                  Perhaps if the advantages you are talking about are chosen after you research the tech...in a way, Vel, it would be like SE on SMAC, you would make a choice for each category...so for military, you might have 5 options, and you pick 2 of them...one might be better siege craft, another might be better defense against sieges, like you said....if you changed choices, a "small" revolt would occur...the revolt wouldn't do anything to your civ, but say, it would take 5 turns to implement the new military doctrine/strategy, so you wouldn't recieve benefits for 5 turns...

                  Furthermore, militaristic factions could implement these changes, say, in 1 turn instead of 5 (like religious civs with governments)...

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                  • #10
                    Never played Moo2, but yep...if that's the setup they used, then I like it muchly!

                    -=Vel=-
                    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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                    • #11
                      It's a very good game...give it a shot.
                      "In the beginning was the Word. Then came the ******* word processor." -Dan Simmons, Hyperion

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                      • #12
                        Hiyas Commy!

                        I see what you're saying re: the SE settings in SMAC....and what you're describing almost sounds like a synthesis of the blind game's research priorities and the SE Settings, modified to be fitted onto the research engine...that's pretty radical, but I like it! If I'm understanding what you're implying, then these "research se settings" would be used to gear the general spin and direction of FUTURE research (ie, a nod to siegecraft would make future military research more likely to yield siege oriented results). A different approach than the one smiley brought to light, but heading in the same general direction....I sense a convergence in the Force tonight...

                        -=Vel=-
                        The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I just might do that, Koyaanisqatsi...I just might....

                          And good name, btw...

                          -=Vel=-
                          The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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                          • #14
                            I think what I'm really shooting for here are the following elements:

                            a) increased replayability (something that a system like this would seem to have in spades)

                            and

                            b) an increased "uncertainty factor" in that, in an MP setting, just because two players are at the same Military Tech level, I don't want them to feel like they automatically know the full extent of the other side's potential...and with several levels of techs under their belts, using any of the methodologies outlined here, they could have developed radically DIFFERENT abilities, which would create additional tension and uncertainty in the game....I like that!

                            -=Vel=-
                            The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I like the idea, Vel.

                              And your avatar is giving me the creeping willies.
                              "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                              "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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