China threatens to nuke hundreds of cities

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sikander


Your arguments do not convince, but that rolleyes really smarts!

Obviously he is trying to sow doubt as to whether the Chinese would go nuclear over Taiwan. They won't, because if they do we won't spare anything west of Xian either. If they nuke our carriers we'll nuke the invasion force in its staging area. If they pull off a successful surpise attack we'll blockade them until not only their economy is devestated, but there will be massive starvation of all resources including food.

Except that nuking land targets, specially ones near civlian areas were the possiblity of massive civlian damage is significant plays an etirely different PR story than hitting a purely military target were the collateral damage is minimal.

The idea of a succesul blockade of China that would bring her down is absurd. China can feed itself, and her Asian neighbors, who have now a huge stake with their largest trade partner would not let their economies sink for Taiwan. China would still be able to import energy and goods from the outside by land. Certainly the shortage of various raw materials would hurt grealty as would the cut off of foreign investment, but the notion that the US could pull of a blockade that woul;d bring China to stavation is pure fantasy.

GePap thinks that the U.S. will do nothing. He is wrong. Bush has made it clear that he'll do something. Clinton sent ships to the straights over missle tests. Don't underestimate our resolve. If China wants to unify with Taiwan then the first step is to develop a democracy.

No I didn't. I said China will be willing to go farther than we are. For all the bluster from our leaders, lets not kid ourselves, Taiwan is not of particular interest to the American people, while it has huge significance for the Chinese. The Chinese are certainly willing to lose more, pay more, than Americans are for it, and unlike the US, Chinese governments don;t have to worry about an electorate disinchanted.

[Commy]

Originally posted by Tingkai

As for France having higher incomes than the US, please tell when?

I think it was about 15-25 years ago that most European countries were still living better than Americans, but that's why I said "IIRC"...too many nights of playing SMAC at 5:00 a.m. (I guess that'd be morning) and now I have to see my doctor to get medication so I can stand up without falling over and going to sleep...

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I want to see all these nukes go off so I can live the post apocolyptic Costner Masterpiece, the Postman.

That flick was ok until the duke it out sceen at the end. That was pure Hollywood dreamland. The rest of the country said, ugg, you gotta be kidding.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I want to see all these nukes go off so I can live the post apocolyptic Costner Masterpiece, the Postman.

"Nothing's free in water world!"

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
The idea of a succesul blockade of China that would bring her down is absurd. China can feed itself, and her Asian neighbors, who have now a huge stake with their largest trade partner would not let their economies sink for Taiwan. China would still be able to import energy and goods from the outside by land.

AIUI a pipepline is rather easy to destroy by air.

[Patroklos]

No I didn't. I said China will be willing to go farther than we are. For all the bluster from our leaders, lets not kid ourselves, Taiwan is not of particular interest to the American people, while it has huge significance for the Chinese. The Chinese are certainly willing to lose more, pay more, than Americans are for it, and unlike the US, Chinese governments don;t have to worry about an electorate disinchanted.

Unfortunetly for your theory the US doesn't have to worry about who is willing to lose more. The war, nuclear or not, is based on China trying to TAKE back Taiwan. In order to do this they have to take their conventional army to the island with conventional ships, covered by conventional air forces.

The Chinese navy and airforce would be mauled so bad in a day or two that it would no longer have the capability to get to Tiawan (I actually thing Tiawan may be able to do this themselves) and a weak later simply not exist at all. That is victory for our side. We don't want to occupy China. Sure they can tread water for years if they want while we bomb them relentlessly with cruise missiles and other munitions, well safe from them. Eventually they will just have to realize Tiawan will not be theirs, and they will take the pride hit and sue for peace.

And our number one item on the peace treaty is to get every one of our treasury notes back

[Kuciwalker]

We don't have to negotiate for that. We can just default on those notes.

[Commy]

I think the best thing China could try and do right now is make Hong Kong host to the United Nations...

Heck, there are more embassies in Hong Kong than there are in New York City, which is pretty sad...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


AIUI a pipepline is rather easy to destroy by air.

And they can be repaired. But of course the US would not really have much access to land running pipelines into China, specially ones running through Central Asia or from Russia. Simply because those states would not likely give the US to permision to fly into their airspace. And no, the US would not be so stupid as to openly violate third party's airspace to hit pipelines when actively pissing other countries off would simply make the attempt to isolate China even less effective.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
We don't have to negotiate for that. We can just default on those notes.

And then have the bond market collapse all around, since if the US starts breaking its promises about paying back, those bill become worthless.

Yeah, that's going to happen.

[Kuciwalker]

And then have the bond market collapse all around, since if the US starts breaking its promises about paying back, those bill become worthless.

Why would the bond market collapse because we refuse to pay back our debts to a country at war with us, and/or a country we were embargoing?

[Kuciwalker]

And they can be repaired.

Not faster than they can be destroyed. And at much higher cost than it takes to destroy them.

But of course the US would not really have much access to land running pipelines into China, specially ones running through Central Asia or from Russia. Simply because those states would not likely give the US to permision to fly into their airspace. And no, the US would not be so stupid as to openly violate third party's airspace to hit pipelines when actively pissing other countries off would simply make the attempt to isolate China even less effective.

Have you ever thought of hitting the pipeline on the Chinese side of the border?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Why would the bond market collapse because we refuse to pay back our debts to a country at war with us?

Because wars end. And debts are basically cardinal rules in the international field. Iraq was and is still expected to pay the debts it owns to everyone, even those states that delcared war on Iraq. Heck, most democracies can't just waive away the debts owed by their tyrannical predecessors.

The US could freeze payments to China, fine, but refuse to pay back, period? Nope, caridnal sin. Ruins all trust.

[Kuciwalker]

I wonder if we paid back any T-bills held by Nazi Germany...

And Iraq had to pay its debts because it lost.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Have you ever thought of hitting the pipeline on the Chinese side of the border?

The US doesn't have many planes that could easily and on a regular basis hit targets in Central Asia. One mission, fine, but after that the air defenses around it would be radically increased and trying to send any more long range bombers in would be less and less effective.

Oh, and no, repairing the pipeline would not be much of a hassle. Cut off flow, bring in new pipes. Yeah, that sound SO hard.

The cost of keeping the pipe repaired would be minimal. You can;t possibly think it otherwise. Its a pipe, for heaven's sake.