The Battle of Algiers

[Az]

I think that you better compare the situation to the one here, with many differences, but it's still closer. The only parallels vis a vis America are "Westerners fighting arabs". The situation differs in the level of involvement, and in the political climate in the country.

[Pekka]

Dunno.. I saw a documentary once about this.. can't remember if it was some kind of an event, but bunch of Algerians wanted to protest in Paris or some other city, well what happened was that they got beat up super bad and many died, and it was an order from the chief of police to beat them up really bad. Basically cops directed them, divided them, and then beat them up really really really bad. In the streets. It was a total chaos, and unlike some hippies stirring things up, they actually were peaceful. They didn't even fight back when they started to lose their lives. It was disgusting, just disgusting. The Frenchies were also kind of in a state of unbelievable, and discovered later on what really happened. It was brutal and it wasn't an accident and people died in bunches. In the streets, the few ones that got snatched, got tortured.

Nice one. I can't remember why they wanted to protest. I guess they wanted human rights or something. This would happen in the 60s or 70s.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Pekka

Nice one. I can't remember why they wanted to protest. I guess they wanted human rights or something. This would happen in the 60s or 70s.

It was before the end of the Algeria war. The FLN decided to organize a demonstration in Paris. This project was officially and clearly forbidden by the government. Nevertheless the FLN dared to go on.
You can imagine that if AQ intended to make a protest in Washington it would not be welcome.

[Pekka]

what ever.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
It was before the end of the Algeria war. The FLN decided to organize a demonstration in Paris. This project was officially and clearly forbidden by the government. Nevertheless the FLN dared to go on.
You can imagine that if AQ intended to make a protest in Washington it would not be welcome.

Yeah, and the Yanks would obviously kill 250 peaceful protestors

It's not surprising that the one who organized the repression was involved in the holocaust (Maurice Papon).

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Az
I think that you better compare the situation to the one here, with many differences, but it's still closer. The only parallels vis a vis America are "Westerners fighting arabs". The situation differs in the level of involvement, and in the political climate in the country.

Exactly. The Français d'Algérie were a western population transplanted for generations in an Arabic territory, in a way similar to Israel, although there are large differences (the gov was in Paris and not in Algiers, there was no territorial entity where the French were the ethnical majority save for a few urban enclaves)

And this is why they fought bitterly, just like the Israelis fight bitterly for the continuation of their country. However, the Français d'Algérie could fall back on the actually French territory, and most of their war effort was supported from Paris. When Paris decided to stop fighting, there was little the Français d'Algérie could do. Two major differences between the Algerian war and the Israeli conflict.

[Pekka]

yeah I think the point was that the one who was in charge of the handling of the protest was .. well.. not a very nice man, let's put it that way. I'm nto saying France did it. I'm saying it was a bastard of a man who was in charge of it. And the public who saw what happened definitely disapproved of it and it was very nasty situation all together.

[MosesPresley]

I think we are seeing Corporate Colonization here. Instead of colonists, you have contractors financially backed by select corporations to rebuild the country and set up monopolies.

I don't think it is as directly intolerable to the colonized. It's a lot more subtle and if the military can impose order, it just may work in the long run. I am not aware of this strategy having been used before in a war zone. I am sure I will corrected here if am wrong about that.

[Az]

Exactly. The Français d'Algérie were a western population transplanted for generations in an Arabic territory, in a way similar to Israel, although there are large differences (the gov was in Paris and not in Algiers, there was no territorial entity where the French were the ethnical majority save for a few urban enclaves)

And this is why they fought bitterly, just like the Israelis fight bitterly for the continuation of their country. However, the Français d'Algérie could fall back on the actually French territory, and most of their war effort was supported from Paris. When Paris decided to stop fighting, there was little the Français d'Algérie could do. Two major differences between the Algerian war and the Israeli conflict.

I was referring to the west bank and gaza - Inside Israel we are very much a majority - The real difference between the case, is the claims of the arabs, and our Algerians laying claim to Paris and Lyon.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Az

I was referring to the west bank and gaza - Inside Israel we are very much a majority - The real difference between the case, is the claims of the arabs, and our Algerians laying claim to Paris and Lyon.

Well, If Algerians had been living in Paris and Lyon before the French got there, I think they would have claimed it as well, no?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
That is also true. In fact many French people considered Algeria as an actual part of France proper and not as a colony.

IIRC, legally, it was part of France...as much as Alaska is a part of the US.

[Mr. Harley]

ZK - legally it was part of France, if you grant the premise of the supremacy of Western doctrines of conquest. Islam actually states, since Algeria was Moslem, that it is rightfully a Muslim state and will always be so - as is/was most of the territory of Spain. Accepting the idea of "legally" is almost always a red herring, unless the system determining the legality is freely acknowledged as legitimate by all involved. Otherwise it is an acknowledgement of who had the power and the will to impose their legal judgements and property rights. The French lost that in Algeria, rightfully so IMHO.

[Az]

Well, If Algerians had been living in Paris and Lyon before the French got there, I think they would have claimed it as well, no?

Yes, and they would engage in endless fighting resulting in multiple algerian casualties.

[Lancer]

France is set to become the first moslem country in europe. Interesting turn of events.

[Az]

Lancer is CharlesBHoff's DL.