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  • Prostitution- Germany

    ...I know this story is a bit out of date- but it seems so bizarre that I am wondering if this is really true...

    It would seem to violate UN regulations against forcing people to work in the sex-industry...



    A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.



    Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

    The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.

    She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her "profile'' and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.

    Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.

    The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

    When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise people who turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer.

    "There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."

    Miss Garweg said that women who had worked in call centres had been offered jobs on telephone sex lines. At one job centre in the city of Gotha, a 23-year-old woman was told that she had to attend an interview as a "nude model", and should report back on the meeting. Employers in the sex industry can also advertise in job centres, a move that came into force this month. A job centre that refuses to accept the advertisement can be sued.

    Tatiana Ulyanova, who owns a brothel in central Berlin, has been searching the online database of her local job centre for recruits.

    "Why shouldn't I look for employees through the job centre when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" said Miss Ulyanova.

    Ulrich Kueperkoch wanted to open a brothel in Goerlitz, in former East Germany, but his local job centre withdrew his advertisement for 12 prostitutes, saying it would be impossible to find them.

    Mr Kueperkoch said that he was confident of demand for a brothel in the area and planned to take a claim for compensation to the highest court. Prostitution was legalised in Germany in 2002 because the government believed that this would help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime.

    Miss Garweg believes that pressure on job centres to meet employment targets will soon result in them using their powers to cut the benefits of women who refuse jobs providing sexual services.

    "They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don't count as prostitution,'' she said.

    "Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centres to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don't want to do."
    -->Visit CGN!
    -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

  • #2
    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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    • #3
      If you are going to legalize prostitution, then I see no justification for these same rules that apply to other jobs not apply to it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Religious Exemption. And personal exemption.

        A person can have a spiritual connection through sex... through other jobs- it's not an inherent factor of the act.

        That's why it would be a different situation.
        -->Visit CGN!
        -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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        • #5
          By that logic fundy xians shouldn't have to risk losing unemployment if offered a job as a pharmacist.

          And hell, you can work up a religious objection to pretty much anything. Who's to say that your religion isn't a "real religion"?

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          • #6
            It is old news, and somewhere in the archicves there are a thread about the same issue.
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

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            • #7
              And that's why people in the US can refuse employment on religious grounds.
              -->Visit CGN!
              -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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              • #8
                I think the more important point I made was the spiritual connection- you don't need to believe in religion to make that objection.
                -->Visit CGN!
                -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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                • #9
                  People in the US can refuse employment on any grounds, as far as I know. We're not eurocommies

                  xpost

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                  • #10
                    Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's instantly moral. After all, we have abortion clinics, the death penalty, and cigarette advertising, for starters...

                    Problem would be solved by requiring the brothels, etc. to identify themselves prior to contact.
                    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                      People in the US can refuse employment on any grounds, as far as I know. We're not eurocommies

                      xpost
                      Not and keep your unemployment.
                      I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                      I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DarkCloud
                        I think the more important point I made was the spiritual connection- you don't need to believe in religion to make that objection.
                        It's stupid. I can make some objection to anything.

                        The only reason this is an issue is because people, despite rationally deciding that prostitution isn't actually different from other jobs, are still emotionally uneasy with it. Well, tough ****. Double standards

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                        • #13
                          Also, prostitution/nude modeling/sex exposure is selling your body rather than selling the 'fruits of your labor' or the productivity of your hands- it's basically treating people like cattle.

                          That's why it should be legislated differently.

                          Note: In this argument, I am not arguing against prostitution (though I am increasingly coming to see legalizing it as an indefensible action) I am merely arguing against forcing people to work as a prostitute or lose unemployment pay.
                          -->Visit CGN!
                          -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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                          • #14
                            It's not double standards at all.
                            -->Visit CGN!
                            -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DarkCloud
                              Also, prostitution/nude modeling/sex exposure is selling your body rather than selling the 'fruits of your labor' or the productivity of your hands- it's basically treating people like cattle.

                              That's why it should be legislated differently.
                              It's selling a service. And re: modeling, that's even more absurd. I fail to see how nude modeling is any more "selling your body" than a Victoria's Secret model, a kid who's modelling in a Lands' End catalogue, or hell, an actor on a TV show.

                              And you haven't showed how "selling your body" ought to be legislated differently.

                              btw, treating people like cattle would be raising them to be eaten. If that's what prostitution is in Germany, by all means ban it.

                              Note: In this argument, I am not arguing against prostitution (though I am increasingly coming to see legalizing it as an indefensible action) I am merely arguing against forcing people to work as a prostitute or lose unemployment pay.
                              And I'm calling you on it. It's an unjustified, irrational double standard.

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