Dan Simmons' "Olympos" and "Ilium"

[Gatekeeper]

*roars* I hate the spoiler tag! Especially when it appears in threads clearly marked in the title as containing spoilers.

Gatekeeper

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well then spoil away . Go into it! John has ample warning .

[Gatekeeper]

Naw, I'll wait for JohnT to finish the novel ... right now, he's in the climactic part of the novel. Which, of course, is generally the case when one's in the last 100 or so pages ...

And Markos? Yeah, the premise definitely is different, which was one of the reasons I picked it up. A person gets tired of Star Wars and Star Trek and needs to delve into the really "far out" stuff now and then. One thing's for sure, the Ilium (Troy) part definitely plays a central role in the overall story.

I wonder if the duology will ever be on Greek best-seller lists?

Gatekeeper

[Admiral]

I enjoyed it, but thought that the parts that take place on the current earth were lacking in dramatic appeal. I also thought that the end of Setebos was seriously anticlimatic.

[Gatekeeper]

Admiral:

Agreed, to a large degree WRT Setebos. But this is also an area where I feel Simmons left open the possibility that there may be another novel coming in a year or two.

Gatekeeper

[Gatekeeper]

*big, puppy eyes* Well, anyone still wanna discuss "Olympos" and "Ilium," both by our good man, Dan Simmons? You do? GREAT! I'll get back to you sometime on Sunday.

Gatekeeper

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Too much pseudoscience mumblejumble to boot.

I thought you liked sci-fi

[JohnT]

I finished it about a week ago.

Meh.

I'm sure that a familiarity with the source materials would've helped, but I prefer science fiction that demands a Ph.D in Science rather than this, which demands a Ph.D in Literature. Not quite, to be honest, but still...

Yeah, it was left open for a sequel. Whether I'll shell out $30 for it is another issue.

[Gatekeeper]

JohnT:

Yep, it certainly left open the possibility of a third volume, especially WRT the moravecs and their little "bundle of joy." That plus the fact the reader never really learns much about Moira, Sycorax or Noman. Hell, while we're at it, let's toss in Prospero and Ariel as well.

BTW, was it just me, or does Simmons seemingly have an anti-Islamist bent? I mean, he pretty much had the Global Islamic Caliphate as the apparent big bad centuries before the timeframe of the duology.

Gatekeeper

[Agathon]

* Agathon utters another feeble plea for real literature...

[JohnT]

I think you would actually like these two books, Agathon.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
JohnT:

Yep, it certainly left open the possibility of a third volume, especially WRT the moravecs and their little "bundle of joy." That plus the fact the reader never really learns much about Moira, Sycorax or Noman. Hell, while we're at it, let's toss in Prospero and Ariel as well.

BTW, was it just me, or does Simmons seemingly have an anti-Islamist bent? I mean, he pretty much had the Global Islamic Caliphate as the apparent big bad centuries before the timeframe of the duology.

Gatekeeper

No, it's not just you. Remember from Fall of Hyperion the following (heavily paraphrased) quote:

"In (???? the Islamic planet), the fall of the farcasters allowed the Mullah's to siege and take control of the main cities, setting the clock back 2,000 years. The people rioted with joy."

There were also a couple of 9-11 references in the two books as well.

[snoopy369]

Simmons seems to have a thing for Jewish characters, also; my guess is he's probably Jewish himself ... that would explain it

I loved the duology. I don't always get the literary references; I've read some Shakespeare, but no Proust, and I never liked the Sonnets anywho ... but they still add an interesting flair to the work, and it leads me to learn something about them

I don't think Simmons would claim to have any particuar bent at plotting suspense in these books; he writes characters and worlds better than almost anyone, and his ideas are pretty good. (I'd say no particular skill, but someone would bring to mind his horror books ) Hyperion wasn't particularly suspenseful, either, yet I know of few people who wouldn't rate Hyperion as the best literary SF novel, *ever* ...

Olympos was in some ways not quite as good as Ilium, to me, perhaps because the first novel had more ... novelty ... to it; and the explanations for why things were as they were sometimes left me a bit confused as to which earth was which But, all in all I was very happy with it, and I think it's worth buying (well, I borrowed it, but still). Had to re-read Ilium though, as it was rather confusing not remembering anything

(Spoiling now. You're warned.)

I do wish Moira had been a larger character, although she was in one sense I guess through her clone; but there's a lot he could have done with her. The Posts (as Posts and not as Gods) in general I think could have been a bigger part, I guess, rather than just being in absentia or crazy with god-power, although that's part of the point I suppose; but I'd like to have found out more of their back-story rather than just "Okay, they went power mad and decided to re-enact the Iliad on Mars..."

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by JohnT
No, it's not just you. Remember from Fall of Hyperion the following (heavily paraphrased) quote:

"In (???? the Islamic planet), the fall of the farcasters allowed the Mullah's to siege and take control of the main cities, setting the clock back 2,000 years. The people rioted with joy."

*hangs head in shame* I haven't read the Hyperion series of books yet, although they come highly recommended, from what I've heard.

There were also a couple of 9-11 references in the two books as well.

Yep, I caught them. Apparently Setebos thought the sites of the Twin Towers would make a good place to have a "breakfast" of sorts. Personally, I'd think not enough died there to warrant the entity's attention, but maybe it has more to do with *how* they died — unexpectedly and with great trauma — than mere numbers.

Gatekeeper

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Simmons seems to have a thing for Jewish characters, also; my guess is he's probably Jewish himself ... that would explain it

Quite possible. I'm sure there's a biographical recap on Simmons out there somewhere that would contain the relevant information. I might get around to looking for it someday.

I loved the duology. I don't always get the literary references; I've read some Shakespeare, but no Proust, and I never liked the Sonnets anywho ... but they still add an interesting flair to the work, and it leads me to learn something about them

I'm not into Shakespeare and Proust much, so I probably missed out a bit on some of the references Simmons was making when connecting his stories to the late greats in human literature. My loss, perhaps, but such is life.

I don't think Simmons would claim to have any particuar bent at plotting suspense in these books; he writes characters and worlds better than almost anyone, and his ideas are pretty good. (I'd say no particular skill, but someone would bring to mind his horror books ) Hyperion wasn't particularly suspenseful, either, yet I know of few people who wouldn't rate Hyperion as the best literary SF novel, *ever* ...

I might have to go pick up Hyperion one of these days.

Olympos was in some ways not quite as good as Ilium, to me, perhaps because the first novel had more ... novelty ... to it; and the explanations for why things were as they were sometimes left me a bit confused as to which earth was which But, all in all I was very happy with it, and I think it's worth buying (well, I borrowed it, but still). Had to re-read Ilium though, as it was rather confusing not remembering anything

Yep, it took me a while to figure out that we were dealing with not only multiple Earths — which is sad on my part, since I'm a big "alternative history" reader — but multiple Mars as well.

(Spoiling now. You're warned.)

I do wish Moira had been a larger character, although she was in one sense I guess through her clone; but there's a lot he could have done with her. The Posts (as Posts and not as Gods) in general I think could have been a bigger part, I guess, rather than just being in absentia or crazy with god-power, although that's part of the point I suppose; but I'd like to have found out more of their back-story rather than just "Okay, they went power mad and decided to re-enact the Iliad on Mars..."

Heh. The post-humans really left me with a sense of disappointment. Here you have supposedly super-evolved human beings — having made themselves all female, by the way — and what do they do? They go insane with power upon discovering multiple realities and implanting themselves with enough nanites to make themselves seemingly eternal.

How human of them, huh?

Gatekeeper