Saw I finally saw the Passion of the Christ

[Nostromo]

It was mind numbingly boring. After one hour, I was like Elaine watching The English Patient. Die! Die! Die!

[JohnT]

Wow. I'm actually agreeing with Pekka's long posts!

But I agree: People who got bent out of shape about POTC are exactly the same as those who got bent out of shape about Scorcese's The Last Temptation of Christ: ideological zealots who ranted about a movie the lot of them bothered not to see. Check out Lord Nuclears "principled response" to see the calmer side of the issue.

Did it portray Jews badly? Well, the ones in the movie who acted badly, yes. However, it was made pretty obvious that Jesus' supporters (and those who, while not supporters of Jesus, also didn't support the abuses of The Law that was going on) were banned from the proceedings inside the temple. It was even made more obvious that part of what was going on, was a test of wills (and control of the mob) between Pilate and the head "Crucify him!" guy. But it was nowhere at all suggested that the entirety of Jewry was to blame for Jesus' death.

[Pekka]

of course you agree with me because even you are sometimes correct Take a stand against me and you stand against THE TRUTH! VERITAS! TOTUUS!

[Vanguard]

Well, it is important to realize that there is absolutely no reason to think that Gibson's recreation of Jesus's torture is at all accurate. All the Gospels say is that Jesus was scourged. No early source we have says, or implies in any way, that Jesus was flayed with the variety of nasty implements in the movie. That is all invention.

Gibson's movie is, in fact, manifestly a modern retelling of a medieval passion play. While these sorts of plays undoubtedly generated some genuine religious feeling, it is probably safe to say that their main purpose was not religious instruction so much as to put "bums on seats". Instead of dealing with the boring and inscrutable details of Jesus's moral teachings, they focus on the more exciting drama of his death---- frequently with an noticable focus on the whipping.

Passion of the Christ is unified in its artistic idea and is effective in presenting a passion narrative in an emotionally affecting manner. But I think critics are justified in pointing out that this is not a documentary---- it is a highly constructed story, with many fictional elements. It derives most of its impact from the long torture scene for which there is no strong testamentary evidence. Given this it is an arguable point whether the torture in this film is anything other than exploitative.

[Vanguard]

Also, are you sure you saw the full version?

There are two, one which has five minutes of the most graphic torture cut out. Most critics were responding to the first, more graphic, version.

[Berzerker]

Allow me

Some say it was a splatter fest. Well.. are you supposed to put the last moments of Jesus nice?

They've done it "nice" plenty of times in the past, so the audience had to use their imagination.

In my opinion and view of the world, greater is respect when the suffering is showed in its true nature, which is, suffering.

Why is it respectful? I don't have to watch someone die violently (or any other way) to be respectful of what was just lost. It ain't how they died, its how they lived - that's what counts.

I bet it wasn't a nice trip for him at the end, so why put it nice? So that the people wouldn't feel disgusted about it?

Umm...yeah...

What's the point of that? People should then choose the easy movies like comedies if they want to feel nice throughout the whole movie.

To not be disgusted? Many do choose movies based on such sensibilities.

I think it was kind of the point of the whole movie anyway, so it was done very good.

I'm not one to be offended by violence on TV but watching some guy get flayed for ~2 hours doesn't appeal to me.

Jews in negative light? What's that all about?

Jews have been cast in a negative light for centuries culminating with the gas chambers, they're a bit sensitive to unpleasant images of Jews murdering God

It built up great for the whole crucifixing part, since even I was kind of like 'ohh.. so now it comes...', just watching it in silence, having a blank brain and no thoughts. Because you knew it wouldn't be 'not shown', because the whole movie up to that point was mostly him getting beaten up anyway, so put few big nails through the palms and ankle should be kind of painful too, the climax of the beating part.

How do we know this even happened?

Hey, show some real respect and walk around smacking your head with a plank of wood like in Monty Python.

[BeBMan]

Was there a happy ending? Like Jesus beating the crap out of those Roman crucifiers?

[Kuciwalker]

It should've had a Matrix-style fight scene.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by JohnT
Wow. I'm actually agreeing with Pekka's long posts!

But I agree: People who got bent out of shape about POTC are exactly the same as those who got bent out of shape about Scorcese's The Last Temptation of Christ: ideological zealots who ranted about a movie the lot of them bothered not to see. Check out Lord Nuclears "principled response" to see the calmer side of the issue.

Nice sarcasm John.

[MosesPresley]

This is my review of the film from IMDB. I wrote this right after watching the film on March 8, 2004.

A Two Hour Snuff Film

This could have been the greatest Jesus film ever made, if only we were allowed to get to know and identify with the character of Jesus first. It really needed another half hour to a full hour at the beginning to establish his character. I feel this was necessary so that we could sympathize with Jesus more easily when he is being scourged and tortured. If his character was established, I think we would have seen people breaking down in the theater with tears in the eyes, but instead it was more like spectators at a car accident.

We need to get to know Jesus first. Instead the `story' jump starts with his doubt in the Garden of Gesthemane and his subsequent arrest. I put `story' in quotes for a reason. There is no story. This is the greatest story ever told without the story. People who are not familiar with story of Jesus had no idea what was going on in this film and were totally aghast at this spectacle of horror and torture being performed for apparently no reason whatsoever. Mel Gibson is preaching strictly to the choir here. He is obsessed with the flesh. The mutilation of it, but not the spirit within it. This sort of mindless mutilation is far more at home in a David Cronenberg film. The only back story we get is a two or three minute flashback when Jesus was building a table and his mother tells him it is time to eat. There are a few other flashbacks, but they are all about the sermonizing and are very short. They illustrate nothing about the man or the sermons for that matter. When the crucifixion finally comes, it comes as a relief from the horror of the previous hour and forty five minutes and there is something fundamentally wrong with that.

Crucifixion was a barbaric form of execution, yet I could not wait for it since it would mean an end to Jesus' suffering and this terrible film. Watching this film is almost unbearable. If you want to watch a man be tortured non-stop for over two hours for absolutely no reason, and then watch him die slowly, you have found your film. Instead of a sympathetic portrait of a gentle man, we get a horror film. I felt dirty when I left the theater. We deserve better and the story of Jesus deserves better.

[Verto]

Take your on-topic posting somewhere else

[MosesPresley]

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Berzerker
They've done it "nice" plenty of times in the past, so the audience had to use their imagination.

Then there are plenty of options out there in the market now. If people want a nice, Disneyfied version they can find that. If they want what happened in a more graphic, realistic presentation, then Mel Gibson gave them that option.

Originally posted by Berzerker
Why is it respectful? I don't have to watch someone die violently (or any other way) to be respectful of what was just lost. It ain't how they died, its how they lived - that's what counts.

Actually no, how Jesus died is actually important to the religion. How he lived gave us a groovy dude with some cool ideas about love that we should model our lives after. His death gave us the more spiritual, metaphysical things to actually believe in. Why did Jesus die? Because through it he destroyed death. Why did Jesus suffer? To prove the incredible extent to which God loves us. It actually is important.

And it does reinforce his teachings about love, forgiveness and peace. The fact that the son of God endured such brutality when at any point he could have called down God's wrath upon his tormenters shows the superhuman restraint and love he has. It is an impossible ideal for us to strive towards always. When Jesus said turn the other cheek, he really meant it. When he said love your enemy, he really meant it. His suffering and death was the ultimate test and proof of this.

Originally posted by Berzerker
To not be disgusted? Many do choose movies based on such sensibilities.

Good, as free people they have that choice.

Originally posted by Berzerker
I'm not one to be offended by violence on TV but watching some guy get flayed for ~2 hours doesn't appeal to me.

Then don't watch it.

Originally posted by Berzerker
Jews have been cast in a negative light for centuries culminating with the gas chambers, they're a bit sensitive to unpleasant images of Jews murdering God

If it happened, it happened. It doesn't have any commentary on current day Jews, or even on all Jews at Jesus' time (he and all his supporters were obviously Jews too). It no more preaches hate against Jews than Schindler's List preaches hate against Germans.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It should've had a Matrix-style fight scene.

Yeah that would also be great for a PotC computer game.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Jews have been cast in a negative light for centuries culminating with the gas chambers, they're a bit sensitive to unpleasant images of Jews murdering God

Indeed... especially since this was the original reason for Christian anti-Semitism from old John Chrysostom. I can see where they may be a liiiittle bit skitterish on having that portrayl again.