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Originally posted by DanS
I thought you were a diplomat? Embassies are off limits. Everybody knows this. Even dumb sh!t Islamists.
I thought you were a diplomat? Embassies are off limits. Everybody knows this. Even dumb sh!t Islamists.
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I am a diplomat. And one of the first things we're taught is that we're in the line of fire, especially during revolutions or collapses of governments. The agreement to treat embassies as sovereign territories is an agreement between govenments; when governments fall, all bets are off. Believe me, given what's going on in the Phils, this is very much on my mind these days."I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin -
Just because you as a diplomat have to be prepared for everything doesn't mean it's AOK for everybody to do what they want during a revolution and for people not to be held accountable for what they have done.
The US would be right to mete out consequences if the new president was involved. How are you to be protected if word gets around that the thing to do is to occupy our embassies and keep American diplomats captive?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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My point is not that seizing embassies is right; its that its unsurprising that the President would be involved in the popular uprising that created his country. It's a little like the British being stunned that we had the gall to elect James Monroe president.Originally posted by DanS
Just because you as a diplomat have to be prepared for everything doesn't mean it's AOK for everybody to do what they want during a revolution and for people not to be held accountable for what they have done.
The US would be right to mete out consequences if the new president was involved. How are you to be protected if word gets around that the thing to do is to occupy our embassies and keep American diplomats captive?
But beyond that, first of all, word has already gotten out that attacking embassies is the thing to do; see here Kenya, Tanzania, and the recent assault on teh consulate in Jeddah. That's why we sometimes evacuate our embassies, as we did recently in the Ivory Coast and will probably do shortly in Haiti. I suspect this "word" slightly predates Iran, and goes back to the moment when we evacuated Saigon.
Second, we've already broken off diplomatic relations with Iran over the embassy seizure. What more are we going to do?
Third, if our ordinary citizens suffer through terrorist attacks for the next twenty years, and it turns out that the Saudis are linked to every single one of them, and a furious mob of Americans finally occupies the Saudi embassy, I'll agree it's a breach of protocol and a violation of the law -- but I'll also undertand where they're coming from."I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George CarlinComment
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Even if I agreed with what you say, I would still hold the opinion that it would be right to rub Iran's face in it, if given the chance. Indeed, it would be our government's obligation to present consequences, if possible.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Spare me the hypocrisy, DanS.A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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He can't. It's ingrained to his sold-to-the-Devil soul
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“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Just cause the guy wasnt at the embassy, does not
mean that he doesnt have a really strong resume.
'During the crackdown on universities in 1980, which Khomeini called the “Islamic Cultural Revolution”, Ahmadinejad and the OSU played a critical role in purging dissident lecturers and students many of whom were arrested and later executed. Universities remained closed for three years and Ahmadinejad joined the Revolutionary Guards.
In the early 1980s, Ahmadinejad worked in the “Internal Security” department of the IRGC and earned notoriety as a ruthless interrogator and torturer. According to the state-run website Baztab, allies of outgoing President Mohammad Khatami have revealed that Ahmadinejad worked for some time as an executioner in the notorious Evin Prison, where thousands of political prisoners were executed in the bloody purges of the 1980s.'
But, you know, sh*t happens in revolutions. Regular James Madison here."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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I agree. I don't see what this accusation and public slander/embarrasment will accomplish save to justify a future war against Iran... I mean, it cannot HELP america's relations with Iran.Originally posted by Ted Striker
The rhetoric against Iran seems to be picking up latley. Those ****ers in Washington had better not be trying anything.
What does it really accomplish? It certainly doesn't make Iran any more willing to coalesce to American Demands.
Seems like Bush is pushing for a war in a year or two
-->Visit CGN!
-->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944Comment
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...WarSecond, we've already broken off diplomatic relations with Iran over the embassy seizure. What more are we going to do?
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No. They wouldn't. Politically it would be a terrible move.The US would be right to mete out consequences if the new president was involved. How are you to be protected if word gets around that the thing to do is to occupy our embassies and keep American diplomats captive?
Also, it should be noted- while the occupation was somewhat violent- it wasn't a massacre like today's terrorism.
Would you have liked to have the British refuse to treat diplomatically with America just because its colonies illegally revolted? Especially when atrocities were committed? Oh, and a little known fact- George Washington, during the French and Indian Wars massacred a French diplomatic delegation by accident. *oops.*-->Visit CGN!
-->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944Comment
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Jesus. It's like you guys are looking for reasons to suck this guy's dick. Comparing him favorably to Washington? You're fvcked up.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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So DanS, do you feel the same way towards dictators that United States has supported in the past?
If not, then how can we take your professed concerns seriously if you go out of your way to condemn leaders who have victimized Americans but you have nothing to say against rulers who victimize their own people if they happen to support the interests of American corporations.A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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@first post+thread title.
and so americas(hard right) tantrum begins 
enjoy it boys - the commies are coming to get you
'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.
Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.Comment
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He's a brutal ****. Not because of what he may or may not have done wrt to the Embassy. That's practically irrelevent."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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No arguments there Ramo.
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But DanS- people can't hold a hypocritical agenda here- and you still didn't answer my question- what does THIS accusation accomplish that can actually help america?
If someone could answer that sufficiently, then I'd be more likely to support the Bush Administration in this endeavour of theirs.
Diplomatically, it matters not what has happened in the past. What it means for the NOW and how it can and will be used is what is important.
Why is the Bush administration making this accusation?
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And also, no administration of almost any nation has a completely clean human rights record. Everyone can point fingers, but honestly- things happen- as Bush and other neocons believe- violence in the name of goodness and democracy is inevitable.
Heck, in Iraq and Afghanistan there are innocent casualties. It's unavoidable.
As for the Washington comment- t'was an example, and a fact of truth. Diplomacy is pragmatic. It cannot hope to be moralistic. Morality and Diplomacy and Governance have little to do with each other, if anything.
DanS- You aren't going to see me complaining that much about an occasional innocent casualty, that's not pragmatic or practical... but you also aren't going to see me supporting wars/confrontations that aren't necessary. That's why I- and I suppose a few others here- are making these suggestions about Iran.
It's not an attack on you personally in any way.-->Visit CGN!
-->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944Comment
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Yup, just look at what was done to the Iriquois confederacy by other revolutionaries, or to those Colonists who remained loyal to the crown.Originally posted by lord of the mark
Just cause the guy wasnt at the embassy, does not
mean that he doesnt have a really strong resume.
'During the crackdown on universities in 1980, which Khomeini called the “Islamic Cultural Revolution”, Ahmadinejad and the OSU played a critical role in purging dissident lecturers and students many of whom were arrested and later executed. Universities remained closed for three years and Ahmadinejad joined the Revolutionary Guards.
In the early 1980s, Ahmadinejad worked in the “Internal Security” department of the IRGC and earned notoriety as a ruthless interrogator and torturer. According to the state-run website Baztab, allies of outgoing President Mohammad Khatami have revealed that Ahmadinejad worked for some time as an executioner in the notorious Evin Prison, where thousands of political prisoners were executed in the bloody purges of the 1980s.'
But, you know, sh*t happens in revolutions. Regular James Madison here.
Yes, stuff happens in revolutions.
If you don't like reality, change it! me
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"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
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