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LOTM: I demand that you learn how to use the edit button and the quote tag. 
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891 -
[QUOTE] Originally posted by DanS
LOTM: I demand that you learn how to use the edit button and the quote tag.
Never! [b][i{q0never![[]/.>"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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What about countries that ban Scientologists from running (which flows out of a policy of banning Scientology)? AFAIK, they are just wierd, not "totalitarian, racist, and support genocide".Originally posted by lord of the mark
JeeZus K Christ.
Ok, Let me restate. A country that is otherwise democratic, that includes the FULL POLITICAL SPECTRUM, EXCEPT parties which are totalitarian, racist, AND support genocide, ARE democracies. Which is not relevant to the case of Iran.
Are you happy now?
Besides, even if a party supports that, why exclude them? Aren't democratic elections about choices to be mad across the 'full political spectrum'?“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Besides, who the hell is Jesus K Christ? Never heard of him.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
"What about countries that ban Scientologists from running (which flows out of a policy of banning Scientology)? AFAIK, they are just wierd, not "totalitarian, racist, and support genocide"."
I didnt know the Scientoligists were a political party. AFAIK the germans consider them a criminal organization. How about countries that prevent the Gambino crime family from running? Oh wait, all democracies ban organized crime!!! That proves NO one is a democracy!! Or else everyone is, whomever they ban! Including Iran! Wont THAT tie Bush's panties in a knot!!! which is really the goal, not any concern for whats actually happening in Iran.
"Besides, even if a party supports that, why exclude them? Aren't democratic elections about choices to be mad across the 'full political spectrum'?"
An interesting discussion. I suggest you make a thread about it. This one is about Iran."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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It wasnt H. the greek text Twain was using misread the HebrewOriginally posted by DanS
Besides, who the hell is Jesus K Christ? Never heard of him.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Originally posted by DanS
Besides, who the hell is Jesus K Christ? Never heard of him.
He was big in America's South. The Aryan saviour, Jesus Klan Christ, never circumcised, never been in a synagogue and avid eater of boudin and shrimp jambalaya.Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.
...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915Comment
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I think having a guy who wont want to deal with the megacorps of the USA, Europe etc might actualy be the break the middle east needs at the momment, give Iran time to find ITS place in the world, rather than having it fed to them and then become dependant on potentialy damaging intervention and strings attached no doubt
'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.
Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.Comment
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Mmmm.Originally posted by molly bloom
and avid eater of boudin and shrimp jambalaya."And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)Comment
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The wonders of selective bolding. Very interesting article, and a very interesting passage in it.[SIZE=1] Originally posted by lord of the mark
Beneath the surface, however, there are encouraging signs for the future of Iranian democracy.
Most important, the election suggests that the ruling elite is not united. Even with most of the candidates disqualified, the campaign has been nasty and competitive, an indication that the monolith of clerical power is beginning to crack. The front-runner, former President Hashemi Rafsanjani, and the supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, were once twin pillars of this monolith; now they are at each other's political throats.
Its ncie to see that the candidate backed by the powers that be did not win.
Moreover, the two leading candidates - Rafsanjani and Mostafa Moin, a doctor who was the minister of science under Khatami and Rafsanjani - have both made statements challenging the legitimacy of the Islamic Republic and its current leadership.
Both have even called for new limits on the power of Khamenei and his colleagues in the Guardian Council - a reform pledge that President Khatami never, not even once, made.
(LOTM - Moin called for LIMITS on the GC, not its abolition.)
Wait, so these guys going further rheotically than Khatami ever idd does not cut it? Why not? Limiting the power of these guys would be the firt step in getting rid of their power, or have you missed the fact that as the law is in Iraq right now, any attempt to get rid of the Guardians would have to be approved by, hmm, guess who? The guardians!
To varying degrees, both candidates have also claimed the mantle of democracy and promised political reform. Outsiders should not interpret this rhetoric of reform as a sign that either candidate (especially Rafsanjani) is sincere in his commitment to change, but it can be interpreted as a genuine challenge to the supreme leader and his autocratic hold on power.
That seems to work just as well.
For everyone except the extreme right, it has become clear that normalizing relations with the United States is popular enough to be a campaign promise.
Another very interesting tidbit left out.
The regime also started a campaign of rumors, threatening dire consequences for those who do not vote. That students will not be able to get their grades and citizens their passports are among the less ominous of the threats. This is significant because powerful, stable, autocratic regimes do not worry about low voter turnouts.
Another place were change in emphasis is so useful.
That's better.For an election that was supposed to be a nonevent for those committed to democratic change in Iran, these developments are encouraging. Contrary to the claims of the regime and its apologists, the current clerical despotism is far from stable.
Unlike recent votes in Ukraine or Georgia, this election will not bring down autocracy. But it may sow the seeds of discord within Iran's dictatorship and lead to a genuine democratic breakthrough sooner than most think.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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I didnt know the Scientoligists were a political party. AFAIK the germans consider them a criminal organization. How about countries that prevent the Gambino crime family from running? Oh wait, all democracies ban organized crime!!! That proves NO one is a democracy!! Or else everyone is, whomever they ban! Including Iran! Wont THAT tie Bush's panties in a knot!!! which is really the goal, not any concern for whats actually happening in Iran.
Oh dear, now you are just looking pathetic. I'm sure if Germany said Buddists were a criminal organization, you'd be just as approving. Yep, yet. What legal crimes (as opposed to crimes of sanity) has Tom Cruise and his ilk done?
Oh, I get it! You just have to label any group as a 'criminal organization' and take them out of the discussion!!
Btw, the Gambinos can run for office in the US and in plenty of places serve from jail (as that Ohio Congressman... what's his name... tried to do).
An interesting discussion. I suggest you make a thread about it. This one is about Iran.
Yes, and you are the one that brought up the 'full political spectrum'
LOTM is baaack-tracking!
Baaaack-tracking!
LOTM is baaack-tracking!
And backtracking is what he does!“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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This "full spectrum" stuff is a very weak argument, by the way. A presidential election is for a specific person, not some vague portion of the political spectrum.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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No one ever looks at the letter next to the candidate's name... noooo
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Yes, so if the range and choice of the different individuals is varied enough, and these indivudlas do represent a veried set of political opinions, how is the election undemocratic.Originally posted by DanS
This "full spectrum" stuff is a very weak argument, by the way. A presidential election is for a specific person, not some vague portion of the political spectrum.
Moein might not have had reformist credentials that LoTM approves of, but he was still obviously a reformer, compared to Rafsanjani and Ahmadi Nejhad.
Heck, the winner was not even the favorite of the hard liners (the favorite was the guy who used to run the Police, Qalibaf.)If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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Jesus K Christ refers to his brother, KURT
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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