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We really should be attacking Saudi Aradia.

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  • #76
    That makes no sense whatsoever.




    If religious fundamentalists are intolerant of other religions, then they will use whatever means within their power to suppress other religions.

    The only reason they have not used the state government as their means, towards this end, is because, as of yet, they do not have predominant power in our government.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by MrFun
      That makes no sense whatsoever.




      If religious fundamentalists are intolerant of other religions, then they will use whatever means within their power to suppress other religions.

      The only reason they have not used the state government as their means, towards this end, is because, as of yet, they do not have predominant power in our government.
      No. There is a difference between going around saying anyone who doesnt embrace my religion is going to hell, and saying anyone who doesnt embrace my religion should not have equal rights under the law. There is a strong tradition in the Baptist and other American churches of hostility to the idea of a state church - and I see no evidence whatsoever of a change in that outlook among fundies. I DO SEE a strong desire to inject God-talk and symbols into the public square - from school prayer, to christmas creches on municipal property, to the ten commandments at courthouses. I dont think any of that is a particularly good idea, and I do think the fundies dont realize how much god expressions that look neutral to them are in fact not, but again - its would represente largely a return to the status quo ante 1962, and would NOT be a threat to democracy, much less the Republic.
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #78
        It does make sense. LotM is saying that the people personally don't like other religions but that they are not trying to use the powers of the state to attack other religions. Follow?
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #79
          Old habits die hard. We said the Lord's Prayer in public school in rural Ohio in some teachers' classes. Over time, I expect this to do die out, if it hasn't already. The information that this is happening gets around really fast in today's day and age.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #80
            There was absolutely no praying in my public schools in California. So Saudi kid moved to the neighborhood and wanted to pray all the time and the school told him he'd couldn't do it on school grounds and that he would not be excused from class to do so. I fully support that call.

            Eventually the rules got changed to people could pray during the 10 minute passing time between classes on any of the grass lawns but if they were late for class they'd be repremanded. Do it enough and you'd get expelled. I'm against using any publicly owned property for religious purposes so I'd like to see a return to the original policy.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #81
              I take a much more relaxed attitude about it. As long as it doesn't put others out, reasonable accomodations can be made for whatever the student believes.

              Also, as long as the publicly-owned property is free at the time, I don't have any problem with it being used for religious purposes. Obviously, if it's a church or whatever, they should pay for the use. Our church held mass in the public school down the street while a new church was being built, for instance. I have no problem with that. If it's a religious student group or whatever, then they shouldn't be forced to pay.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Oerdin
                There was absolutely no praying in my public schools in California. So Saudi kid moved to the neighborhood and wanted to pray all the time and the school told him he'd couldn't do it on school grounds and that he would not be excused from class to do so. I fully support that call.

                Eventually the rules got changed to people could pray during the 10 minute passing time between classes on any of the grass lawns but if they were late for class they'd be repremanded. Do it enough and you'd get expelled. I'm against using any publicly owned property for religious purposes so I'd like to see a return to the original policy.
                You do realize that would mean an observant Jewish couldnt eat lunch at public school?

                Like a wise man said, there'll be prayers in public schools as long there are exams in public schools

                SCOTUS wisely only banned school sponsored prayers. The attempt by local school admins to go way beyond SCOTUS, has caused some of the backlash on this issue.
                "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                • #83
                  France got this issue right. Schools should be a religion free zone. Students and parents have the other 3/4 of the day, the weekends, and the holidays to practice their religion.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                  • #84
                    Reference all the other threads we've had on headscarves. Suffice it to say, for purposes of this thread, I merely will say that I disagree.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Oerdin
                      France got this issue right. Schools should be a religion free zone. Students and parents have the other 3/4 of the day, the weekends, and the holidays to practice their religion.

                      Ok. Fine. Then dont allow ANY kids to eat lunch at school. After all, they have the other 3/4 of the day, the weekends, and the holidays to eat.
                      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                      • #86
                        That's not really the same.
                        Blah

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                        • #87
                          at my school we have choices on what we want to buy so I don't see why an observant jew would have a problem since he can choose what to buy. It's like a cafe as opposite to standard school cafeteria where you're stuck with the menu of the day.
                          Who is Barinthus?

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by BeBro
                            That's not really the same.
                            Youre right. Someone quietly praying doesnt disturb anyone. eating, OTOH, can be quite disgusting. Crumbs, mess, all kinds of bad stuff. Smells. Heck you know some kids bring peanut butter to school, and someones who's alergic can become seriously ill.

                            You want to eat, eat at home. Or in your church, of course.

                            By the way, if school is a religion free zone, should Jewish and muslim kids be allowed to ask for a school lunch entry that doesnt contain pork? Since you know, by avoiding pork, they are practicing their religion?

                            So Oerdin, you up for vouchers for religious schools, so I can afford to send my kid to a school where she'll be allowed to say a short, quiet, blessing before eating?
                            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Barinthus
                              at my school we have choices on what we want to buy so I don't see why an observant jew would have a problem since he can choose what to buy. It's like a cafe as opposite to standard school cafeteria where you're stuck with the menu of the day.
                              an observant jew isnt only required to avoid certain foods - theyre required to say a blessing before and after eating.
                              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                              • #90
                                Say it mentally.
                                Who is Barinthus?

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