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Do you think they care about voting if they are dead?
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(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within." -
The ones in Chicago or in Iraq? Or both places?A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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Hmm... both.(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."Comment
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Well right now, I'm dying to get some sleep tonight, so . . . . . .
A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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An interesting article from the Times:
MOSCOW, June 17 - Uzbek law enforcement and security ministries implicated by witnesses in the deadly crackdown in the city of Andijon last month have for years received training and equipment from counterterrorism programs run by the United States, according to American officials and Congressional records.
Isn't that precious..."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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So? Charles Manson spent over a decade in school so are his teachers to blame he went psycho and ate people?Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Do you honestly believe that the massacre was the first instance of human rights abuse from the Uzbek regime? The lesson here is that giving Charles Manson armed training after we know he's a mass-murderer is probably a bad idea."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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See here:
Note that there's a lot of **** here before the Andijan killings."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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And? Everyone know's Karimov is a ruthless dictator. You were attempting to claim the US is to blame for his actions though which was entirely different. Essentially you can either engage these people and try to moderate their actions (knowning they'll still be dictators in the end) or you ignore them (knowing they'll still be dictators but you won't be able to nudge them to improve the situation).
One of those is a practical approach which works in the real world while the other one does not.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Exactly how did we moderate Karimov? Seems like he's only gotten worse in the past four years (hence the Andijan killings). Giving a dictator weapons and training ain't the same thing as moderating him.
The real lesson here is to support democracy, rather than coddle ruthless dictators.
We are legitimizing the regime, giving it political and military support. We are partially responsible for the regime's atrocities."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Russia and the US are sticking a couple of hands into this relatively small dam. obviously noone cares about human rights violations while this regime is in stake.
A question needs to be asked, though, what portion of the population do the 'protestors' ( mind you, they've torched many government buildings) represent, and are they truly a threat of bringing a fundy government?Comment
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The original post in the thread is exhibit a for how we specifically aren't putting any effort into moderating Karimov."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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The Democratic alternative to the dictatorships in the ME and Central Asia are Islamists. It's the nature of the beast, since we've crushed the democratic left for the past half century.A question needs to be asked, though, what portion of the population do the 'protestors' ( mind you, they've torched many government buildings) represent, and are they truly a threat of bringing a fundy government?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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That certainly isn't the truth in post soviet central asia. It can't be, and isn't the truth in most other places. Besides, don't forget that democracy is not rule of the mob.Comment
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It's a generalization, and one that probably applies to a large extent in Uzbekistan (wasn't that your argument?
). In any case, what I was getting at is that Islamism is probably something we'll just have to live with for a time, if we want some of these places to end up as free societies. Repressive secular dictatorships are just fueling the movements.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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