Westminster sucks (or, How I learned to stop worrying and love the President...

[Dracon II]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
OMG there are pros and cons to both systems11!!!

The world is imperfect11!!??!!

True... but absolute statements are useful for the purpose of dialectics. What's the point in arguing if you begin with a compromise?

Making cabinet directly responsible to parliament is a good system. I don't see any contradiction between separating the legislature and executive, but still requiring the executive to regularly confer with and report to the legislature. In that sense, perhaps the White House is too separate from Congress...

I see excessive party discipline as one of the beasts of the Westminster system... I believe that has much to do with the nature of the system itself and thus would not be so comfortable with conceptually separating the two.

Congressmen have much more leeway in representing their constituencies... and the White House Cabinet has much more of an ability to specialize in their particular portfolio (which was my original point of course... the emphasis wasn't on accountability but efficacy... but I agree the two must be balanced and certainly complement each other).

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Straybow
Jacobins???

Yes, Jacobins.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Dracon II
Congressmen have much more leeway in representing their constituencies... and the White House Cabinet has much more of an ability to specialize in their particular portfolio (which was my original point of course... the emphasis wasn't on accountability but efficacy... but I agree the two must be balanced and certainly complement each other).

Specialise? In their ability to hand out pork?

[Dracon II]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Specialise? In their ability to hand out pork?

Pork barrelling is a universal in politics so we should abstain from discussing it

[Agathon]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
George Galloway is one of the most loathesome, disgusting people ever to come from this island... but he still destroyed the senators.

And this from an island that produced Margaret Thatcher and numerous other Tory slimebuckets.

[Odin]

The US's problem is that it is so anti-majoritarian that only special intrest groups, especially one with lots of $$$ to give to favored politicians, really have any say in new laws, the average shmuch has absolutely no say. The US desperately needs PR and a weaker executive.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Specialise? In their ability to hand out pork?

Seems to me a person that is tied to a particular region would be more likely to hand out pork than someone freed from that burden.

[Dracon II]

The US desperately needs PR and a weaker executive

PR... quite possibly. Weaker executive? No... the executive is already relatively weak.

[mrmitchell]

Seems to me a person that is tied to a particular region would be more likely to hand out pork than someone freed from that burden.

Is that really a bad thing?

Everyone talks about "pork," but no one's going to say why it's so bad. It gives money to local communities and at the national level it isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[Kuciwalker]

Yeah, it's the thousand straws that break the camel's back.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Re: Westminster sucks (or, How I learned to stop worrying and love the President...

Originally posted by Dracon II
A Cabinet minister is expected to represent a single constituency and debate general national policy in addition to representing their portfolio. Thus there is a system whereby a Minister is torn by conflicting responsibilities and must fulfill diverse competencies,

Oh calamity! Oh infamy!

Why exactly is that a bad thing? We've had many cabinet ministers losing their seats because the ministerial policies they pursued alienated their electorate. Now persuade me that this is a bad thing, because I'm actually quite a big fan of public accountability.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Dracon II

The US desperately needs PR and a weaker executive

PR... quite possibly. Weaker executive? No... the executive is already relatively weak.

If you mean relative to over developed nations, then you'd be wrong. Yes, Russia and China have more, but there's a far stronger and more concentrated executive in the US than in the UK and other parliamentarian systems, as well as in France, Germany and other European presidential systems.

You could argue that the US needs a stronger executive, but it's not 'relatively' weak.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by mrmitchell

Is that really a bad thing?

Everyone talks about "pork," but no one's going to say why it's so bad. It gives money to local communities and at the national level it isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back.

It can be good and bad. Which one it is wasn't a topic I was discussing. If you want to have that debate talk to UR, he seems to think it's all bad.

[Dracon II]

Originally posted by Drogue
but there's a far stronger and more concentrated executive in the US than in the UK and other parliamentarian systems

Waaaaah? I think there's stronger and more concentrated amounts of acid on your sheet than mine. You're tripping man

[Drogue]

Um... you elect one person to rule the country, who has the power to declare war and make laws to be passed by congress.

We have a cabinet that makes laws that need to be passed by parliament, and any declaratio of war must be passed by parliament and the Queen.

While you have a president, we have a cabinet of around 13 politicians. I'd say that's less concentration of power.